This past Wednesday (05/23/03), I was fortunate enough to get an interview at Camden County College with three of the faculty members in charge of the new Associate's Degree in Video Game Design curriculum, as well as a shorter interview with two members of the College of Media and Communication at The University of the Arts for GamesAreFun.com.
The interview went very well, and I feel that the new program at Camden County College will be a successful one, since the instructors are very passionate about what they teach; and want that same passion from their students. The gentlemen from the University of the Arts were also passionate about their teaching, and want to offer students the best education they can for their minor in Video Game Design.
The first part of this interview is with Professor Phyllis Owens and two of her faculty, Elaine Reeder and Tim Williams, from Camden County College. The second part of this interview is with Neil Kleinman, and Chris Garvin from the University of the Arts.
Sam Altersitz, GAF: Professor Owens, you were the person that really pushed for this new Associate's Degree in Video Game Design to be added. Why was that?
Professor Phyllis Owens: I've been researching game development for the past three years. Looking at four-year schools--universities, mostly--that were doing components, not full degrees in game design; the components were in different areas in their programming side. Not so much the art. DigiPen, in Washington State, started out with an art component, and now have a programming component of their game design program.
We've been doing gaming for the past six years in one of our classes, Multimedia Technology II, which has an interactive program we use, called Director. It just took off. We needed a way to teach them lingo, and most of our students are graphic design students [who aren't necessarily always adept at the programming side of things]. We needed a fun way to teach them programming, without letting them realize we were teaching them how to program; and [games were] the way we were able to handle it.
We got games, loaded them up, and had them analyze the games. We had them look at all the components: looking at the design, the programming, and the way the documentation was written. And we took it from there. The students would then come up with their own game design; they would storyboard the game, they would create the documentation, and they would develop the game. That was one main project that they followed through the entire the semester. And the results were tremendous.
So that was a way to sneak them into learning programming, and it worked. As classes went on, games got better. Students would see what was done previously, and that set the mark; and they were really able to come up with some interesting games.
GAF: So from there, you decided it was time to expand past just using games as a learning tool, and go with something based on video games that would be able to let students focus on the games themselves?
Prof. Owens: I wanted to expand, and I was also looking at the industry. It's a $20 billion industry, and we already do many components of computer graphics. We do video imaging; and if you look at most games now there's some components...like the game you were talking about before the interview [Enter the Matrix for the Xbox]; they're taking movies and developing games; so they're mini-movies, these games. We have a great animation program--Tim Williams is the head instructor for animation.
So we had all the components, and all I had had to do was convince the administration that this was what I wanted to do. [Laughs]
GAF: And how hard was it to convince the faculty, administration, and the board of trustees that the addition of a Video Game Design degree would be good for the college?
Prof. Owens: My faculty, the ones that work with me in the Computer Graphics Department, I had no trouble at all with them. They were like: "What can we do to help?" and "This is a great idea!" I have a great group of faculty working with me, and that's why I think our program is so good: because I have dedicated instructors, dedicated faculty members, that come in--on their time off--to brainstorm and come up with ideas. I have a really great group, so I had no problem there.
I've been here going on eleven years. I started in the Visual and Performing Arts Department, and [later] created the Computer Graphics Program. But as the industry has changed, and is changing, still keeping the art component, but moving more towards technology; I had the opportunity to move over to the Computer Science Department. I did speak to a few of the faculty in the Computer Design Department, and they were for it.
As for a few of the administrators...well they just thought we were playing video games, but there is so much more to game design than one small piece. They only saw the one small piece.
GAF: The final piece; the finished game that people play.
Prof. Owens: Exactly. They didn't know what went into it. So, basically, I just had to make sure that I had done my homework [on game design], and show them that other schools were doing this, other well-known schools. Also telling them that we would be the first school in the nation doing a two-year degree in game design. Other schools offer similar programs, or online programs, but they're just certificates in game design. As far as offering a two-year degree in Video Game Design, we are the first school in the nation to be doing so, as far as I know.
Also, the press really helped. I never thought that [the amount of press coverage] would happen. We had a woman from The Star Ledger talking to us, and it was funny; it was the three of us, talking with you now, talking to her, and she said, "We have over a million readers. Once this hits, watch out." And we were like, "Yeah, yeah... sure..." But once it hit, it hit. And hit fast. I think the next day we had someone from [the local affiliate of the UPN] down here doing a story on us. Just about every week I had reporters calling me, I had phone interviews; it was just unbelievable. That was a nice thing to happen.
Elaine Reeder: That pushed us over the edge, and really helped us in convincing the administration; since, obviously, this is a big market. People were contacting us!
Prof. Owens: And the nice thing was that I received calls from professors in other universities, and other community colleges, congratulating me. That was really nice. They were saying things like, "Way to go, because this would never happen at our school."
GAF: But maybe now, it may.
Prof. Owens: Hopefully. In fact, at 11:30 today, I'm meeting with The University of the Arts, and we're hopefully going to set up some sort of articulation agreement with The University of the Arts. [Author's Note: An articulation agreement allows for credits from one school to be transferable to another.] So when students get their two-year degree [at Camden County College], they will be marketable, they will be able to get jobs; but if they wish to continue their education at a four-year school... there's a lot of schools out there, but they weren't in a local area; this way we'll hopefully have a local four-year school for them to consider.
GAF: So this program is something you've wanted to do for the past three years?
Prof. Owens: Yes. We've been doing components of game design for six years. For the past three years I've really been doing my homework. I tend to do research until it's coming out all over the place.
Elaine: One of the issues that really pushed us along this route was that when we began using games in Multimedia Technology II--six years ago--to design games, games were being designed by two, three or four people. Now, games are so big you sometimes need teams of a hundred people to do them. So we need to have a bigger program, with more courses, with different elements, so we can really train people for all the different [video game design] jobs that are out there.
I think when we were just doing it with Multimedia Technology II we could give them everything they needed in Multimedia Technology II. But, now, with so much going on, like sound, video, animation, etc.; that we need to break it down and offer them more.
Prof. Owens: Right. And that's what we're doing. Not only did we add three levels of game design and development, we've added Computer Animation III; students will be taking video multimedia classes; digital storytelling; students will also be taking two levels of programming. So they're getting the best of both worlds. After graduation from Camden County College with their Associate's Degree in Video Game Design, if they want to go and learn more about animation, they can do that. If they want to learn more about programming, they can do that. So I think we're giving them a well rounded degree in Game Design and Development.
GAF: What else was your research helpful in when it came to convincing the administration?
Prof. Owens: The research was helpful in writing up new courses to present. I wrote six new courses for this degree.
Elaine: The pile of paper in her office was gigantic. It was practically falling off her desk! [Laughs] It's a tower.
Prof. Owens: It's not like I could compare and say to the administration "this school is doing this" and such. I did my homework on video game design, and I did it well. That way, if someone did question me on something, I could say "Well, here's the research on that." That was one reason it took three years to do the research. I was also writing up other degree courses, one of which starts this fall in Computer Animation. We also have a certificate in Web Design, but I'm turning that into a two-year degree as well.
GAF: And these other degrees could also be useful in the development of video games. Computer animation is part of game design. There are also Web based games and such. So all these different degrees can actually help each other.
Prof. Owens: Exactly. And I find our students are already signing up for a two-year degree, and then combining it with a certificate. It just makes them more marketable. We are a $67 per credit school...
GAF: Which is a hell of a lot more affordable than, say, going to DigiPen, which I hear is somewhere between $40 thousand to $50 thousand per year.
Prof. Owens: It's very expensive, yes. And we were really lucky to find a consultant in the area who graduated from DigiPen. He received a four-year degree from Stockton State Programming, and then went out to DigiPen. He stayed out in California for a few years, and worked in the industry, and now he's living in Cherry Hill [New Jersey]; so we just picked his brain on the subject. He has his own company called Mysticware, and, in fact, this fall he's going to be teaching a couple of classes for us.
GAF: Were you surprised when the board of trustees unanimously voted in approval of adding the Associate's Degree in Video Game Design?
Prof. Owens: No. [Laughs] I've gone to the board before, with my programs...and we always make an exciting presentation. [Everyone laughs]
What I did... I don't know if I set this up, something may have been saying in the back of my mind to set this up... when I spoke to the Associated Press, I said my goal was to go in the board of trustees meeting and have them play video games.
We took students with us, who were in the Multimedia Technology II class, who designed games; we had four PlayStation 2 consoles with us and set them up on the tables for the board members and a large screen TV. And, basically, I let the students talk (one of our students works for Game Crazy), and the students talked about their love of the program, and how they were staying at the school if the program was approved. They were graduating this past semester with degrees in Computer Graphics or Video; and they're staying to earn their degree in Video Game Design. So that helped a lot.
Elaine also showed some of her student work, and then we had Ryan Harbinson show them how to use the controllers.
GAF: He was also interviewed in the Courier Post, correct?
Prof. Owens: Yes, he was.
Then we set the board members up on the PlayStation 2 consoles and let them play a game one on one.
GAF: Which game?
Elaine: Hot Pursuit 2: Need For Speed.
Prof. Owens: It was fantastic.
Elaine: They all played the same game. And you could hear them yelling: "I'm off the road!" "What am I doing? I can't turn around!" And one board member was so excited because he finally got up to, I don't know, 90 miles per hour or some speed near there...
Prof. Owens: But he was going in reverse! [Laughs]
We also had a reporter there from the Courier Post, and it was just... Well, prior to this they had discussed the budget for the school that the reporter was also covering. But when the story came out the next day, there was something on the budget, but it was all the way at the bottom of the page, while the story on the Video Game Design major was at the top of the front page of that section. It was great.
After they played the game, though, we knew we had them.
Elaine: They were jumping up and down. It was great. One of them said, "This was the best board meeting we ever had!"
GAF: What? No GameCube? For shame! They could have played four-player Super Smash Bros. Melee!
Elaine: We were talking about something like that, but let me tell you, they had enough trouble controlling one against the other.
Prof. Owens: We actually took a few hours analyzing what game they should play. What would be the best thing? We decided on a racing game.
Elaine: Right. What wouldn't take very long to learn and what they could get a good experience from just a few minutes of play time and such. So I think we made a good choice.
GAF: And then they wouldn't let go of the controllers. [All laugh]
Elaine: Yeah, We were asking, "How are we going to get them to stop?"
Prof. Owens: We were saying, "We have to get back to work," and they were like, "No! No!" [All laugh]
GAF: Have you been in contact with, say, DigiPen, or any other schools about possible articulation agreements?
Prof. Owens: I'm going to let Elaine take that, since she had the opportunity to go to a game design conference out in California. She got to talk to a lot of instructors out there.
Elaine: Instructors, developers, publishers. There were two full days of discussion on "Where are we going with educating people in game design?" "How are we going to get people into the job market?" There were people from DigiPen there, from the Academy of Art College, as well as developers and publishers. The developers were saying was that they were looking for people who are trained; they want the Renaissance Man. They want the person with logical thinking, creativeness, etc. And they're looking at all the programs in hopes that they'll be able to take people right out [of school after graduation]. Now I didn't speak to anyone specifically from DigiPen and ask, "Will you take our students?" because at that time our program was still in the planning stages.
I think what we're hoping to do with The University of the Arts is similar to what you are talking about. After they've completed two years [at Camden County College], they can go on for another two years to complete their [Bachelor's] Degree in Video Game Design.
Right now, we're looking more locally for our students, because there are game companies popping up in the area. There's a huge market in Maryland, and those developers were already asking colleges, "Could you please train people? We need them to work." So I think if we stay close to home, right now, we'll be OK. We'll go back out next March to the IGDA (International Game Developers Association) convention, since we are now members of the IGDA, and talk to other schools out there about possible articulation agreements and other things.
GAF: Speaking of game companies popping up, have you been in contact with any companies about possible job placement or internship positions?
Elaine: I've spoken to a company in Haddonfield [New Jersey], and companies in Maryland, but I haven't inquired about internships or job placement, yet, because our program is still in the early stages. It will take us at least a year and a half to get people through the degree program, so we won't be ready for internships or job placement until that time.
Prof. Owens: We've already had companies call us and say, "We want your students." Lockheed Martin, and a company called Signature have contacted us. They're developing games for a project they are working on. And I have had to tell them, "In a year, we'll have students who may be ready." [Laughs]
Elaine: Yeah, we're not ready yet! [Laughs]
GAF: You mentioned your consultant went to DigiPen.
Prof. Owens: Yes. His class started with 100 students, and by the end only 20 remained.
GAF: Students are going to have to realize that these courses aren't a walk in the park.
Prof. Owens: Exactly. I think we're at 500 interested students right now...
GAF: 501 if I can find the time and money... [All laugh]
