Prof. Owens: You're right, though. The courses will be demanding. If a student completes the program, and I'm also saying a good student, [they will have] two completed games under their belt. That's our goal, to have two solid games plus a degree.
Graduating students can potentially start at $60,000 per year. So people saw $60,000 and were saying, "Where can I sign up?" And the first question I asked was, "Do you play video games?" Most of them said yes, but some were like "Why would I do that?" But, you know, that's actually a big thing. In our first class, Game Design and Development, they are going to play video games; they are going to....
GAF: Oh, darn! What a horrible class! [All laugh]
Prof. Owens: They are going to pick a game and analyze it. They're going to look at all the components of that game, and they're also going to start their documentation for their games that they wish to develop. This is a college level class where you play video games.
Elaine: It's funny; in my Multimedia Technology II class, the first two weeks we start talking about games. I ask them to go out and do some research; and I'm not just talking about video games--board games, baseball, football, etc.--we have to talk about the elements that make a game fun. Why are people interested in playing games? All of the things that go into getting someone to want to play [the games], and these are the things students need to think about when they start designing a game. You pick a target audience, you need to design for them; you need focus groups so that you can talk to them and find out what they're interested in. There's a lot more to game design and playing games than people understand. Parents call all the time saying, "I don't understand; they're going to be playing games? How can they learn from that?"
Prof. Owens: And the kids are in the background screaming "Yay! Yay!" [All laugh] "We're playing video games in college!"
Elaine: One parent called me and said, "My son's been playing video games for years, and I keep telling him to stop doing that! And now you're telling me I should be telling him to keep doing it?"
GAF: "But, mom, it's homework!" [All laugh]
Prof. Owens: It's funny, we have ten and twelve-year-old children emailing us saying, "Can I be in your class?" And I have to say, "I'm sorry, but you aren't old enough." But, what we did do was put them on a focus group, so once students start designing then we will send them the games [to try], or if they are local they'll come here and play them. They'll analyze the games, and that's what we want. We want the feedback.
GAF: You want feedback from gamers about how your game design program is working?
Prof. Owens: Exactly.
Elaine: In the game class, their final grade...each student has to play each other's games. They also have to comment on what is fun, what isn't, how the controls were, etc.; so it's not just me grading the games, it's everyone else playing the games as well. It's really important for them to see what everyone else thinks.
GAF: That's an interesting way of doing it. Instead of students just handing in something and saying, "Here it is; grade me," the other students actually play the games made and give feedback on them.
Prof. Owens: Not only do we do it with that class; I think we do it with all of our classes. We all work in the industry, besides teaching, and I think that's important to know what the industry wants; what is current; what is going to continue [to be wanted from the industry]; and what is growing and changing [in the industry]. And I think by giving that material to the students, it makes them more marketable.
I also try to ensure that the people I hire [as instructors] are also working in the industry. They're also teaching, but they know of things that happen that students can't learn from a book.
GAF: Do you think that a disproportionate amount of students may become disillusioned with video game design once they see how involved an difficult these classes are going to be?
Elaine: This is the type of thing we have to let them know, up front. We don't want students getting into the program, and then getting frustrated. They really need to understand that this is not just about playing games, but it involves designing games. That includes designing, programming, art, sound, etc., and that the courses will have a lot of homework.
Prof. Owens: And a lot of time outside of the lab. Our classes are two and a half hours each week, but we tell them they'll be spending a lot more time in the computer labs. We have two labs here on the Blackwood [New Jersey] campus, one at the Cherry Hill [New Jersey] campus, and a new lab opening up in the tech center at our Camden [New Jersey] campus. Students will most likely spend at least ten to twenty hours in on one project, outside of class. Most of the classes are lecture and hands-on classes, with maybe a little bit of free lab time at the end; but students are going to spend a lot of time at the computer labs doing their homework after class. And it's a lot of homework.
It's also a way to weed out those who won't complete the course.
GAF: Right. Find out who is determined and creative enough to complete the course. Find out their strengths and weaknesses. Like with who is good at animation, who is good at coding, etc.
Prof. Owens: Yes. And what we're hoping is that when students sign up for the program, that they'll form their teams, and they'll hopefully stick with the same teams throughout their 2 years.
Elaine: That's another thing developers mentioned when I was out in California, they're not hiring "Lone Wolf" designers. They want people who can work on a team, and they need to prove they can work on a team. So that's what we want to build into this course, and stress to our students.
GAF: So you say you already have 500 students interested?
Elaine: [500] that have called or emailed.
Prof. Owens: Well, we already have 400 plus students in the program--breaking it up into the components [we already teach]: the computer animation, the Web, video. And now we have the games. I told our dean that my goal was to get 1000 students, combined, between all the programs we offer. I like to set goals.
GAF: For the video game design courses, how many students are you going to be able to take, at first?
Prof. Owens: Right now we're running the experimental course over the summer. A lot of the students are our students already. The summer class will be 15 people. Over the normal semesters, classes will be at 20 [students per class session, to allow for adequate instructor/student time]. In the fall, just in game design, we're running three courses in Game Design and Development I. They don't necessarily have to go right into the game design class, they can go to animation, programming, whatever.
As more students sign up, we'll add more classes. But, the key is that I will not hire anyone off the street [to teach these classes] that doesn't have the proper skills. I'm really, really picky about whom I hire. When a person comes in for an interview, I give them the mid-term and the final that the students take.
Elaine: In the interview you have to take a test! When I found that out I was sweating bullets! [All laugh]
GAF: "God! I haven't done this since college!"
Elaine: Yeah!
Prof. Owens: I look at your portfolio. I make sure you are working out in the industry, because that's really important to our students. I'd rather cancel a class than put someone in to instruct that I don't feel is qualified to teach it.
GAF: So expanding on that, the numbers of people in each graduating class will depend on if you can find enough qualified instructors.
Prof. Owens: Yes. And we're really lucky that our consultant is also going to be teaching classes this fall. In fact, the publicity really helped [in finding instructors]. I was afraid I was going to have to put an ad in the paper looking for people, and instead they started to call me and send in their resumes. There's a guy in Medford [New Jersey] who actually develops soundtracks for video games, another [qualified] person in Cherry Hill [New Jersey]. And I was like "My God! You are so close!" It was great that people ended up calling me.
In fact, it was funny. I had lost the phone number of the consultant that called. I had so many phone numbers [that I just misplaced it]. I figured I'd never hear back from him at that point. I was talking to one of the students who talked about her cousin, who had gone out to Stockton [State College] and then went out to DigiPen; and I said, "Is his name Dan?" And she said, "Yes." I said, "Give me his number! That's the guy!" [All laugh]
He's great. I called him up [about being our consultant] and he agreed. In fact, he's out in California for the big conference out there. The E3?
GAF: Yeah, that just passed. A bunch of our editors were out there. Not me, of course, but still... Next year. Next year I shall be out there, playing all those games, and typing all night; and hoping to God that there're Ethernet jacks at the hotels, since I refuse to have to try and use dial-up again...
GAF: What sort of programming languages will students end up learning throughout the courses? Examples being C, C++, OpenGL, DirectX, etc.
Prof. Owens: There are two programming courses the students will be taking. The first is Fundamentals of Programming. We have a great instructor, who is working with Carnegie Mellon [University], and we're going to be teaching object oriented programming through a program called Alice, which Carnegie Mellon has. Alice is completely object oriented; utilizing objects the students can relate to.
GAF: So we're not talking coding as much as more of a visually based program?
Prof. Owens: Yes. And that's great for our students, especially students who have never programmed before. They're going to get an initial taste of programming through objects that they understand. Tim? Do you want to talk about the animation that you do; and how you teach them animation?
Tim Williams: Like they were saying before, a lot of our students are graphic artists, and they think visually. I think the same way. I'm lousy with coding; I hate lingo and all that kind of stuff. If I find somebody smart [motions towards Elaine and Professor Owens], I hook up with them and then we can do things together.
This has an influence on my class, and how I teach. We're putting emphasis on working as a team, because no matter where you go--in animation, gaming, or whatever--you are in a team-type situation. You can't be a Pre-Madonna and say, "I'll draw up the plans, and do the coding and yadda yadda yadda!"
GAF: The days of the one-person studio are pretty much over.
Tim: Yeah. There's no such thing as a one-person team. I tell my students that even the small studios have at least two to three people...and they have like no social life and they stay up until two in the morning and such.
Prof. Owens: Sounds like someone we know...[All laugh]
GAF: I can't quite put my finger on who that may be... Oh, wait. No, I work 7 overnight shifts a week, that's why I have no social life.
Tim: That's the main thing, to show them that they can be graphic in thought and still get things to work out. I've had students come up to me and say, "Oh, you mean the computer doesn't do the work for me?" And I say [in a sarcastic tone], "Heh, heh. No." [All laugh] I can practically see them talking to the computer sometimes, "Come on computer! You can do it! Do this now! That's right! Move this way!"
GAF: [Picks up mouse, sounds like Mr. Scott from Star Trek] Hello computer.
Tim: I was just thinking about that scene myself. [Laughs]
Students need to learn the whole three-dimension aspect, being as they're graphic arts students and are semi-used to the computer, [but] they're still thinking two-dimensionally. Trying to put in that third dimension...they have to be told that the computer is generating a false third dimension; we're still looking at a flat monitor. Making people's minds think in two and three dimensions at the same time is kind of a hard concept.
GAF: Right, because it technically is impossible to have a true three-dimensional image appear on a two-dimensional screen.
Tim: Right. I'm trying to show them to use true views, not the default bird's-eye camera view. I show them an ice-cream cone with three scoops from a bird's-eye view and ask them to tell me which is the largest scoop. They all look at me and say, "That's easy, the one on the bottom." Then I tilt the skew of the camera a bit and they see that one of the scoops is really a lot further away from the others and appears smaller because of it. I have to tell them, "See, it's all perspective."
So all this becomes necessary in teaching them about game worlds, and putting animated figures in those worlds. It takes time to grasp the concepts. Concepts like layering--the objects don't all have to be in the same generated field--and other concepts like this.
I show a lot of them the games, Web animation, and 3-D animation. I let them know that it is really just around three seconds of animation going over and over again to give the illusion of movement. It really gets complex, though, and it's not just "Oh! Look at the pretty pictures!"
GAF: So this program is also designed for students who may have never programmed before as well?
Prof. Owens: Right. The second level of programming will teach them C++, and they will hit upon DirectX in the second and third levels of game design classes. What's unique about our program is that students are going to have a Macintosh [G3 or G4 computer, depending on which lab they are in] on one side, and a PC on the other side of them. So students will end up dong a lot of the creative work on the Mac [art, rendering, etc.], and on the PC the students will do their programming [DirectX, C++, etc.].
That was really hard to push through the administration. They asked, "Why do you need two computers on the desks?" Luckily, we get grant money, which helps alleviate the costs.
A few years ago we received a huge grant from Microsoft. We received around $250 thousand for equipment, and something in the area of $3 million plus in software.
GAF: Odd, that I see only Macintosh computers in this lab...
GAF: Have you been in contact with the three major console developers (Sony, Nintendo, and Microsoft) about your program? As in the possibility of getting development kits to work on, or are you going to focus more on the PC side of things right now?
Prof. Owens: Right now, it's going to be the PC side.
Elaine: I spoke to some people when I was in California, but it is very difficult to get them to open up their architecture. Mainly because...
Prof. Owens: It's expensive.
Elaine: Yeah, but they also can't let the rights out to just anyone.
GAF: Non-Disclosure Agreements and such.
Elaine: Exactly. But it was a focal point at the IGDA conference: How to get academia and the developers, the industry as a whole, together. We were saying, "As academics we need to be able to show our students how to work on these kits." But on the industry side, they're worried about copyrights, patents, etc.
GAF: That opens up an interesting idea: What if console makers were to pseudo-GPL their older machines--except for Microsoft, obviously, as this is their fist console--for academia. For example, Nintendo could perhaps give their older Nintendo Entertainment System, or Super Nintendo Entertainment System development kits, or Sega could give their Sega Master System or Sega Genesis development kits as learning tools for academia.
Elaine: That's one of the issues they're discussing. We're hoping as our meetings progress over the year that some form of answer can be achieved. Even if it's just something like demo development kits, that don't have the full capabilities; but just something that students can get into and look at. Right now, though, they have issues with doing things like this.
GAF: Well, one of the main things, however, is that console development is different than PC development--except for the Xbox, since it just uses DirectX.
Elaine: But the Xbox is its own architecture. And that's an issue.
GAF: That is true, but, generally, if you can program in DirectX, you can program for the Xbox with a very shallow learning curve. Whereas the PlayStation 2 has this insanely bear-like architecture with a steep learning curve; and the GameCube is more like a Macintosh and uses OpenGL as it's main programming language.
Prof. Owens: Hey, Sam, what's you're background? [Elaine laughs]
GAF: Gamer. [All laugh]
Elaine: Those are the issues we need to work on. Developers want people who are trained; but if we can't get them to open up their hardware and software to us, how can we train students to be ready to work for them?
GAF: That would be tough.
Prof. Owens: It is tough. With our grant from Microsoft, we'll be able to get games and such from them; but as far as hardware, not yet.
GAF: But you're hopeful that this may change in the future?
Prof. Owens: We're hoping in the future, yes.
Elaine: As part of the IGDA...
Prof. Owens: Yes, with our IGDA membership we're hoping that we can get some headway into this. Also, as our program grows, we can then go to [the developers and manufacturers] and say. "We have X amount of students out there" and that can hopefully help us in getting a better relationship with developers and manufacturers.
GAF: And how hard was it to get into the IGDA?
Elaine: Because we're on the academic side...
Prof. Owens: They called us.
Elaine: Yes. They really wanted us to be a part of it. The reason that they put this group together is that the developers really want academia to teach students how to design games, and they really want to come together and figure out how we can do it.
It was a fantastic two days. We just all came together and sat in a room...
Prof. Owens: And played games. Elaine called and said, "I'm playing this fantastic game!" [Laughs]
Elaine: No! No! The game part was afterwards! For the two days, we didn't have any games. We broke up into groups and discussed what the issues are, in so far as training people, and what the developers wanted and how we could train people for what they wanted. It was great; we broke up into groups and came up with issues, and then broke into other groups for [discussion as to] how can we resolve these issues.
Prof. Owens: You even made a presentation, didn't you?
Elaine: Yes. At the end of the second day I got to be with someone from the EA [Electronic Arts] group, and we made a presentation. I also volunteered to be on a committee over this next year to try to look at the issues we were discussing and see if we can find resolutions to the issues.
GAF: You said there was going to be six new courses for the Video Game Design major?
Prof. Owens: Yes, six new courses. I'll print you up a sheet with how they will be broken down over the two-year course. We're having some of the courses start this summer.
GAF: A primer course?
Prof. Owens: No, it's the level one game design course, the one where they play games. The signup started the other day at 9:00 AM, but there was a line forming around 7:00 AM. The summer course was completely filled by 11:00 AM.
GAF: If this is any indication, how popular do you think this course will become at Camden County College?
Prof. Owens: Very.
Elaine: From the calls that we've gotten already; it's more than we could have expected.
GAF: Do you think the story hitting the Associated Press is what really made the difference?
Prof. Owens: I think that really helped. That was one component that I didn't think we would have in the beginning.
Elaine: I think that we would have marketed it, but at a later date. We certainly didn't expect the kind of publicity we received.
Prof. Owens: It even ran on CNN on the ticker tape scroll at the bottom of the screen. It was funny, the administration was at a leadership meeting, and one of the administrators went back to his room and he saw something about President Bush considering war with Iraq and then Camden County College has a new degree scrolling along right afterwards. {All laugh] Then he called everyone about seeing it on CNN.
Another thing I want to mention is that we have a really great president here at Camden County College, Dr. Phyllis Della Vecchia, who really encourages faculty to think outside of the box and look to the future.
She really supports us.
