News - GTA:SA Contains Sex Mini Games - Politician Calls For AO Rating
Posted by
Ian Pueschel
at 11:53:54 PM EST on 7.7.2005.
Last month some ingenious modder-types released a modification to the PC version of
Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas that unlocked some previously unplayable mini-games that were apparently intended to play during the date sequences in the game. The mini-game, if you missed it in the headline, is of course sexual in nature and more to the point is accompanied by some rather graphic animations.
As a result, Assembly Speaker pro Tem Leland Yee (D-San Francisco/Daly City) has released this statement, blasting the Entertainment Software Rating Board.
"Once again, ESRB has failed our parents. This particular game has been known to include extremely heinous acts of violence, and now it has been uncovered that the game also includes explicit sexual scenes that are inappropriate for our children. I have urged the ESRB on numerous occasions to rate this game AO based on its blatantly graphic nature."
"Whether it is JFK: Reloaded, Manhunt, 25 to Life, or now Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas, the video game industry continues to demonstrate a sense of arrogance towards public opinion and a lack of responsibility in protecting our children."
For all intents and purposes it does appear that
Rockstar is responsible for creating the mini-games and leaving them on the game disks. Yes, disks, as apparently these mini-games are unlockable on all versions of the game, PlayStation2 and Xbox included, if you possess the necessary hardware to download the modified save games to your console. So far neither Rockstar or the ESRB has responded to Leland Yee's press release, but it will definitely be interesting to see what they say, as Mr Yee has a point; GTA: SA does contain graphic depictions of sex, even if you do have to do some extra work to unlock them, and could reasonably be given an Adult Only rating because of it.
For those wondering why a developer wouldn't just settle for AO rating, it's generally considered the marketing kiss-of-death as most retailers (notably Wal-Mart, who sells more video games than any other retail chain) refuses to carry AO titles. Of course, GTA:SA for the PS2 was already the best selling title of 2004, with more than five million copies sold as of last December.
"Clearly the ESRB has a conflict of interest in rating these games," said Speaker pro Tem Yee. "Plain and simple, parents cannot trust the ESRB to rate games appropriately or the industry to look out for our children's best interests. The ESRB and the video game industry cannot police themselves and this is yet another example of why we need legislation to limit these types of games to children."
Leland Yee's Assembly Bill 450 is an example of such legislation. Specifically, the legislation would prohibit the sale and rental of violent video games that depict serious injury to human beings in a manner that is especially heinous, atrocious, or cruel, to persons who are 16 years of age or younger. Under Yee's proposal those who violate the act may be liable in an amount of up $1,000 for each violation. In addition, such described video games would have to be labeled, "This game may not be sold to anyone under 17 years of age."
Note that these are some of the less graphic and more clothed activities you're likely to see with the mod enabled. For those
really curious as to full extent of the mod's capabilities, there are more graphic pictures and even a video available elsewhere on the internet. For reference, the modification is known as the "Hot Coffee" mod.
Update: According to
GameSpot, the ESRB is now in the process of investigating this matter, which could potentially be a serious violation of ESRB policy which requires developers to come forth with a full disclosure of pertinent content.
"The integrity of the ESRB rating system is founded on the trust of consumers who increasingly depend on it to provide complete and accurate information about what's in a game. If after a thorough and objective investigation of all the relevant facts surrounding this modification, we determine a violation of our rules has occurred, we will take appropriate action," Patricia Vance, head of the ESRB, said in a statement released this morning.
Update: Yet another update in part thanks to
GameSpot.
"This afternoon, when asked if the "Hot Coffee" code was included in game discs manufactured by Rockstar or its agents, the company commented more fully then it had previously. A spokesperson told GameSpot News it was not."
Not exactly commenting more fully and leaves some room for interpretation, but ESRB president Patricia Vance seems to agree with the sentiment that the mini-games are not an inherent feature of the game; "He actually had to change underlying code," Vance said of mod author Peter Wildenborg to the Boston Globe. "It's not a cheat. It's not an Easter egg."
So it seems that if Rockstar never intended the public to experience the graphic content, they won't be held responsible for it's discovery. However, Vance did have this to say as what ramifications this story could have for the ESRB, "I think it certainly raises issues about what's considered playable content."
Comments
Please
log in or
register to post comments.
+0 karma
drizzt 7.15.2005 at 06:05:55 PM
no one is reading this but Hilary Clinton declared "war" against the video game industry. Here we go again people
+0 karma
drizzt 7.13.2005 at 01:53:48 AM
onizuka sensei this IS NOT my point of view, just playin a little devils advocate, but games are interactive. In a game you make the decisions/actions, not just observe them.
+0 karma
fillerbunny9 7.12.2005 at 06:57:58 PM
I am most pleased with the ESRB's stance on this. code was modified to allow access, this was not considered playable content until someone went and hacked it in.
as for Mr Yee having hacked content, he did not do the hacking, and likely, I'll doubt he even owns a copy of the game. where the content provided to him came from is rather irrelevant, and I think that if any legal action can be taken, it is against the person who originally hacked the program to allow this content to be played.
a sad moment for modders, but as I said, legal ramifications would be lodged there first and foremost.
+0 karma
onizuka sensei 7.12.2005 at 04:02:21 PM
How weird, and I never even read that latest Gamespot update. Like the reason in my last post it seems we know why it is there.
There is a leg that Rockstar could stand on though and that is to take the said Mr Yee and sue his arse for hacking into your copyrighted product known as GTA: SA. Even if he was looking into Rockstar, the fact he or known associates knowingly hacked into a copyrighted game has already put a noose around his/there neck/s. Surprised this wasn't noted.
Sure it can be done. If it's posible for a man in the street to be taken to court for hacking into products, then why not this Mr Yee?
We all own several games in our collections that have similar things on their disk (though maybe not of a sexual nature, but directors cuts if you will) that we don't need to know about, because the finished game and the game still in development are two different animals.
Remember people, GTA is for mature folk. It can raise the question of what is considered playable content but notice that violence is accepted more than the natural act of sex, even in a damn game (or on a PSP or in a magazine etc) or in real life, how wierd.
What is the difference between playing kinky games with your partner in the privacy of your home than this in a game or on a DVD with a partner or not? This is all to do with how the mainstream public see games, not the fact this kinky game was hidden probably because removing it might have meant rewriting the game code entirely (Rockstar tech guys would know for sure).
Because the easily led public always get the gangster violence end of the games industry many uneducated people asume there are no other kinds of games. Meanwhile over the street at the local theatre/cinema, sex and violence makes another unabashed display, for it's days of ridicule are long behind it. The movie and music industries have earned their spurs of exemption or something like that (correct me if I'm wrong).
Games are the new rock n'roll, sticking it to the man while working for/alongside him and others. Good luck Rockstar. You clearly don't deserve this publicity this (even if there's no such thing as bad publicity).
Funnily enough, sex in games has always been a tricky subject and as technology has progressed it has never really been talked about in the west. However in japan they've had games like this mini game for years, most likely more games of hentai than GTA clones (check the facts yourself). If sales in GTA go up because of this news we have to consider the fact that some people might want this in their games. And when movies (American Pie anyone), books, music and tv (these always have sex and violence) can do it then why do games get put in the Iron Maiden for thinking about providing the same?
The fact we are talking about sex in games is healthy (whether you think it's wrong or not) because the day will come eventually when we may see more of it, if that's what some people want. Who knows, GTA has already broken the violence taboo, maybe when this sexual taboo is broken gaming might be taken seriously like other mediums. We'll see in time.
Games are fun for everyone, not just kids, get used to it. A child can have more access to sexual and violent images through the tv remote and other guile and cunning means we might not consider them capable of, than most games, because not all games are violent or sexual.
Fancy a game of Tetris, Mr Yee?
+0 karma
pixy misao 7.12.2005 at 03:51:47 PM
It's funny how Austrailia can ban sex scenes and violent imagery from their continent, yet have it splattered all over their soap operas and other tv programs.
+0 karma
drizzt 7.12.2005 at 02:19:30 PM
Great the game industry drops the ball. This is going to get ugly in the political ring.
While most of you may not care, this is the last thing we need right now. Next Joe Leiberman will be running for President. Then we can kiss our precious M17 games goodbye.
Most of the anti-game politicians belive that the ESRB, retailers, and developers are working together to make a rating system that doesn't work and are trying get these games in childrens hands. They also belive the indusrty has portrayed the M17 rating as "cool" and are using it as a advertising/marketing tool.
And people say that I am a conspiracy theorist.
+0 karma
onizuka sensei 7.12.2005 at 01:46:34 PM
I have a new theory about this part of the game. I'll explain what I think it is.
When a game is being developed over a long period of time the coders, programmers etc need some down time. It's very possible this part of the game was either made as amusement (yes, it is a game after all and an adult/mature one at that, therefore ment for adult/mature eyes) to during down time or was going to be part of the game but was hidden with code when Rockstar decided to take it out of the final playable cut.
For Rockstar to remove this section of the game from the cut completely might not have been possible with harse deadlines to meet to please invester/shareholder folk and such.
Until the the average joe understands how games are made we are likiely to get more of the same. the very fact it took hackers to open the game says that Rockstar hid this part of the game because they knew they'd get a higher rating if they included it. This could have impacted on sales as a result.
I'm not surprised the restless angelic wings of american fools are crying wolf over a game that is for mature people. These same fools are thinking games are only for kids, and so they jump and shoout. Sad really isn't it, when the adults are treated like children.
I'd like to hear what Rockstar have to say on this whole thing.
+0 karma
bluesx 7.12.2005 at 07:13:00 AM
I take back all those bad things I said about you. You're absolutly right, there is no need for nudity in games. Except in God of War's case (great game by the way) in which nudity was used to create the illusion that you were in greek times. But even then, it was not actually needed. I just think its stupid that this is such a big deal to some stupid f***, and as far as I know, their close aren't even off, ZOMGT3HWTF!!1!1!!1!!!one!!11!elevan
And you didn't find some form of amusement in the mini game in God of War? That gave me a chuckle or two, plus I got a s*** load of red orbs.
+0 karma
drizzt 7.12.2005 at 06:29:23 AM
bluesx I agree with what you say about nudity vs violence in games.
My point is where is the place for nudity in games. I mean sure God of War has nudity cause of its greek/roman mythology setting, but the threesome minigame was unneeded and tacked on. On the other hand before I played that game all I heard was "dudue you get to see titties". I heard not one thing about the human sacrifices or all the other violent stuff Kratos does.
Still I cant see the nees for fighting nude with the DOA girls. Or even nude volleyball. There is no place for it. Sure I would play the DOA game if it came out but not even a sex scene in a cinematic game like MGS or a rpg like FFX is reasonable.
Pointless and harmful to the game industry is what the GTA fiasco is.
+0 karma
bluesx 7.12.2005 at 05:59:49 AM
This is just bulls*** plain and simple. Xen is pwning, and anyone one who disagrees is retarded.
And, you know, I guess I never realised before this, but we live in a world (as far as video games go) where cussing, nudity, and having sex is treated far worse than killing.
Seriously, whats so wrong with cussing? I had a talk with a friend, the best answer he could give me to my question was, and I quote, "Its just something you don't do. You wouldn't go eat dinner naked in front of your parents, would you?" I didn't reply but I thought, what is the problem with doing this?
There isn't a problem. Its just most people would prefer not to be seen in the nude. Just like, if both people want it, their isn't a problem with having sex. I think these things have been totally twisted into things that they clearly aren't.
I challenge somebody to give me a reason why sex and cussing is so wrong. Don't just say, well you're stupid, you don't know why? You're not even worth replying to. Because I can almosy guarentee that you don't have an answer.
People are f***ing stupid.
+0 karma
hypothetically 7.12.2005 at 05:30:36 AM
Hmm, looks like the game is gonna be banned in Australia, according to the Sydney Morning Herald anyway. http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=24535
"However if it is full of pornographic sex scenes then it should not only be banned, but all copies should be burnt and if possible jumped on."
lol
+0 karma
bignfanboy 7.12.2005 at 02:57:23 AM
I can't believe that people are getting upset over this, when there is so many other "horrible" things in GTA. It's just 2 people have sex, and they aren't even nude. At least this girl is the main characters girlfriend... it's better then banging some hooker in your car and killing her when she leaves so you can get your money back. Personally, I don't think it's such a big deal.
+0 karma
thekow 7.12.2005 at 12:32:43 AM
wulfson - 7.12.2005 at 12:10:22 AM
andonuts - 7.11.2005 at 08:38:06 PM
I know plenty of kids and teenagers who play a of a lot of GTA, actually.
And their parents should be horsewhipped into caring about what their kids are doing, not the retailers, not Rockstar, not anyone else.
I've seen more adults that I don't think are responsible enough to play GTA than teenagers. People give teenagers bad raps, but you guys need to understand that hey! There are teenagers who are mature enough to handle things like GTA at a younger age!
On the flipside, turning 17 doesn't magically make you a good young adult.
+0 karma
vinny 7.12.2005 at 12:29:25 AM
The parents should be horsewhipped? Why? They're innocent after all... I mean, it's not their job to raise their kids- it's the videogame/entertainment industry's job to raise kids.
Seriously, if Rockstar is a fault... I hope they get hell. Videogames have enough people pointing fingers at it.
+0 karma
wulfson 7.12.2005 at 12:10:22 AM
andonuts - 7.11.2005 at 08:38:06 PM
I know plenty of kids and teenagers who play a of a lot of GTA, actually.
And their parents should be horsewhipped into caring about what their kids are doing, not the retailers, not Rockstar, not anyone else.
+0 karma
mime genocide 7.11.2005 at 10:49:00 PM
a lot of stores have tryed to ban games but when they start selling they have a way of quietly showing up on store shelfs. sorry but i must now use the bookbag analogy except the book bag is covered with images of blood, gore, drugs, gangs, stealing cars, and there is a holografic sticker that shows a car with a pair of legs sticking out of the window and the car rocks back and forth when veiwed at differnt angles, when the sticker is pressed it makes sounds like moaning. this book bag can only be sold to people over the age of 17. how ever it turns out that if you have a degree in computer science and can heavaly modify a sony brand zp-1230 camcorder the holografic sticker turns in to a man and a women "fully clothed" ingaged in the act if "dry humping". it turns out that this was sliped in early in the development of backpack but was never made veiwable. when veiwed like this it is not a big deal. the game had sex scenes, was rated for them, and it turns out thru some overly complicated method that breaks the software licence agreement "which is a legal contract" you can see another. PEOPLE ARE SUPID, the media lies to get people to watch and the politicians need to get votes by finding "evil bad things" to fight in the name of good.
+0 karma
ggoofer 7.11.2005 at 10:45:00 PM
I smell a lawsuit...
+0 karma
fthat 7.11.2005 at 09:26:39 PM
The mod was made by some Dutch kid.
I don't know how game companies can say an AO rating hurts sales when they're too scared to release any AO games at all.
Screw Wal-Mart, pepole will go to a different store for GTA, its just too big of a game. Its Wal-Mart that will lose. I can't believe Wal-Mart carries any of the GTA games considering they won't sell most music with profanity. I'm sure they wounldn't carry GTA if it din't sell so well.
+0 karma
andonuts 7.11.2005 at 08:38:06 PM
I know plenty of kids and teenagers who play a hell of a lot of GTA, actually.
+0 karma
pojo 7.11.2005 at 01:27:12 PM
Of course Rockstar left this in intentionally, and I'm glad someone found it. Should (Rockstar) be held accountable for it? Yes.
On the plus side for them, I guarantee the PC version will see a spike in sales, because only adults play the game anyway.
+0 karma
wulfson 7.11.2005 at 11:46:06 AM
If anyone at Rockstar had a hand in making the mod, I doubt it was a company decision to do so. More likely one of the developers would've acted of their own accord and made it. It's certainly not unheard of...look at the Ascension Mod for Baldur's Gate II by David Gaider.
+0 karma
darkdragoon 7.11.2005 at 11:10:20 AM
"Considering how adept hackers are at getting EVERYTHING out of game codes, I have a sneaky suspicion RockStar deliberately left this stuff in to be found."
I wouldn't be surprised if they not only left in in there deliberately, but also had a hand in making the mod and having it spread enough to get noticed by parent groups/politicians.
Heck, it seems like a pretty good plan for Rockstar. They get the publicity and the controversy that they crave so much, and the ESRB ends up taking flak for it.
+0 karma
sirdragoon 7.11.2005 at 10:44:49 AM
Rockstar definitely should've known this was possible. But alas, companies only "disable" things without even batting a thought to the possibility that it might be re-enabled by a code or a clever gamer.
This may change that, though. We'll see.
+0 karma
ttfp 7.11.2005 at 06:41:07 AM
Considering how adept hackers are at getting EVERYTHING out of game codes, I have a sneaky suspicion RockStar deliberately left this stuff in to be found.
+0 karma
daislite 7.10.2005 at 04:50:11 PM
hey pixy, who said I play GTA games?
+0 karma
thekow 7.10.2005 at 04:08:41 PM
Think about how many R-rated movies break into the top of sales charts. Think about how many R-rated movies are known for breaking sales goals.
Now think about how many PG-13 movies do the same. Episode III, Spider-man 2, Titanic, Batman Begins... And those are just a few recent examples.
Now think about how many NC-17 movies even get into the top 25 best selling movies. Top 50?
+0 karma
drizzt 7.10.2005 at 03:42:21 PM
First of all xen saying I know nothing about games is ridiculous. Second you belive that NO ONE should take responsibility for this? Its people like you that are going to get violent games takien off the market alltogether. How old are you 16? 17? Well whatever your age you sound very immature and obviuosly dont know how the ESRB works.
You still dont acknowledge that this data WAS intended for use in the game but taken out of the final product. Rockstar designed this "minigame" for the GTA date scenes. Not some game hacker. Its not like the Mod creates the data. It is as simple as removing the data the restricted the access to these "minigames". Now that someone has created this PATCH anyone can find it.
My point is that you dont have a point in any of your statements that holds up logically or ethically.
My question (and eveyone elses). Who is responsible for this data getting out to the public?
My answer. ROCKSTAR!
Now iof you'll excuse me I am going to play some GTA:SA!!
+0 karma
pixy misao 7.10.2005 at 01:21:16 PM
"daislite - 7.9.2005 at 03:46:25 PM
hey, pixy! blow me"
I'm so glad that my OPINION matters so much to you that you'll attack me on a comment board with your greatest come-back line. I imagine that you wonder why you often are banned from message boards and the like, with that enguaging personality and charm akin to a broken beer bottle... you must all the guys swooning.
I try not to stereotype those who play GTA, but you're not a credit to your fellow players.
+0 karma
jurban 7.10.2005 at 12:09:54 PM
The AO factor means that normal retail outlets like Wal-Mart would probably not carry the title, and Wal-Mart is the money shot when it comes to game sales. In essence, your title would turn into a specialty item and not a main stream title. Not good for sales.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.10.2005 at 07:56:19 AM
Even if it is a "simple" hack, its still not as easy as accidently cutting open your backpack. So no, your analogy still doesn't work.
+0 karma
roundeyedevil 7.10.2005 at 07:51:28 AM
I dont fear a n17 or ao .how many games would have that.its not gona cut into my playtime.Im not afraid of the esrb colaaborating with the developers to get evil games through.Its not happening the esrb is a good thing and the federal government wants there regulations on it like everything else.Its very very sad the game industry was untainted vertualy untill this last couple of years.I just want the developers to be able to put what they want in there peices of art work,some of the last good things will come out of the revolution and the ps3.though with all this talk its geting pretty hot ,even though nothing has happened in a wail
+0 karma
andonuts 7.10.2005 at 01:25:27 AM
xen -- that's kind of like arguing that the porn on your computer isn't really porn, just a series of zeroes and ones that, when you happen to filter through an image viewing program, only happen to create a series of pixels that resemble a pornographic image.
The third party in my analogy is merely the first kid who thinks to cut open his backpack. The hack to unlock this code (as far as I am aware) was a fairly simple one, and did not involve the reassembly of any broken content -- merely the removal of a "mask" that hid the content already packaged there. No one is suing EA because someone made a patch to uncensor naked Sims and have them perform kinky sex acts on each other -- which is what your analogy seems more like to me.
+0 karma
scoville 7.10.2005 at 12:08:19 AM
The government pressured almost all retailers into not carrying anything AO rated. And unlike movies, games generally can't go unrated to make it into stores. Having the rating would limit you to online only sales, like the recent AO-rated uncut version of Leisure Suit Larry 8.
+0 karma
c 7.9.2005 at 11:33:56 PM
demoncrono - An NC-17 rating usually cuts into sales.
+0 karma
demoncrono 7.9.2005 at 10:52:51 PM
why do people fear the rating of nc17 and ao?
didn't they rework house of a thousand corpses because it got an nc17 rating and they wouldn't release it cause they wanted an r rateing? but...but why?
+0 karma
demoncrono 7.9.2005 at 10:46:38 PM
why do people fear the rating of nc17 and ao?
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.9.2005 at 10:15:04 PM
Oh, and I wan't to say (because I realise the last post probobly sounded wrong) that GameFAQs is a very decent site. Its just because of the sheer size I believe that some of the childish discussions on the forums take place. Aside from the forums I think that it is a wonderfull site and I meant no disrespect toward it. I shut up now.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.9.2005 at 08:59:51 PM
Haha. Got it. Don't want another GameFAQs board going here.
+0 karma
drumlord 7.9.2005 at 08:47:22 PM
xen: Oh, I can tell you aren't a huge flamer. I'm just very excited in how well the comments system is going. I have a GIGANTOR bias here, but I find our comments to have some really great discussions without getting too heated. The PSP vs. DS stuff gets old fast, but it'll die down once the X360 vs. Rev vs. PS3 really gets going.
+0 karma
wulfson 7.9.2005 at 08:19:26 PM
Better make a "This is a joke" disclaimer, Rich. Someone's liable to take your last point seriously :P
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.9.2005 at 08:15:23 PM
drumlord: lol Seriously.
Sorry for lack of paragraphs. When posting here I tend to just wing it and not revise. Usually my posts are fairly short. I'm not trying to write a formal paper here after all. As far as insults go, I will try to limit myself. But then I tend to get touchy on game censorship issues. Its one of those things that irks me. Don't expect me to be a huge flamer on coments though. Its just topics like this, and as said I will limit myself from here on out.
+0 karma
drumlord 7.9.2005 at 07:54:06 PM
xen: 1) careful with the insults
2) use paragraphs
3) we need to get backpacks off the street, or as I like to call them "briefcase simulators." If we don't ban backpacks, your children could be carrying around briefcases and going to board meetings and filling out TPS reports!
+0 karma
thekow 7.9.2005 at 07:42:57 PM
I don't know why, but I'm so entertained by the concept of someone shipping a backpack with porn and violence inside.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.9.2005 at 07:10:55 PM
Andonuts. Actually, that is a terrible analogy. It completely ignores the fact that a third party is needed to find the pornography. Here is a better one (that is still screwy, but fixes the backpack analogy): A backpack company originaly intends to have porn sewn onto a backpack that already contains violent images. They decide they don't wish to do that for a marketing strategy because it would alienate some of their audience, and decides only to go for a high-teen audience. For whatever reason, the backpacks are close to shiping date and to despose of the porn material would be less convenient than to cut it up into completely unrecognisable bits and leave them within the backpack. Months after the ship date, someone decides they want to screw arround with the material. They take the unrecognizablbe bits still sewn into the backpack and turn it back into the porn and throw it back on. They have an easily accessable machine that will conveniently do it for other people to if they desire. Anyone who knows the word porn or any pornography related words, can intentionaly or accidentaly stumble onto a large number of places that have the pornography they sell vividly displayed much quicker than they can go to this person's machine and have the much less abundant, and more softcore porn sewn into their backpacks. However, some dickhead politician hates backpacks and considers backpacks evil because they allow kids to carry guns to school unnoticed. Now in the past people have given politicians like this no legal ground against backpacks, because they realise they have many practical uses and only a very small minority of kids have ever used backpacks to carry guns to school. However, this bloodthirsty politician learns about this machine and realises that the material was already sewn into the backpack and decides to use it as leaverage against backpacks in general, making people ignore the fact that you must first go to this machine in order to put the porn onto your backpack and make it seem like it is the company's fault for having the unrecognizable bits of material sewn into the pattern of the backpack. Since the company made the material, many people whom are ignorant to the backpack-making process decide to ignore the machine and condemn the backpack maker for including the material as unrecognizable bits of material, anyway. Meanwhile they want to have the backpack banned in stores that normaly sell mature backpacks, but not adult backpacks, because they feel that everyone will go to the machine that is on a very large highway where many adult places are located and more easily accessable to the very people they don't want to see the backpack porn. Now of course familys that monitor where their childeren go have little problem with these places. Neglectfull parents however decide that their kids can wander around this dangerous, porn-infested highway freely may have kids that use this machine and obtain this backpack in the first place. Because of the people's ignorance, the ass***e politician finaly has ground against backpacks. He believes that all unrecognizable mateial in backpacks should be checked.
That seems about right...
+0 karma
mcbride 7.9.2005 at 05:34:48 PM
Likewise, I believe that really sums up the predicament.
+0 karma
roundeyedevil 7.9.2005 at 05:29:37 PM
The points on both sides add up.What does not is the constant attack on video games.These same people with repitition attach themselfs with the Ideas most far out there this is a perfect example who normaly would do such a thing as to hack a game,somone who has a decent amount of skill in the art of computing is more bound to be a older fellow at least you would think considerably older then there 18 rateing,the same may or may not be similar with those who find the patch some place.These people who attack things whatever they may be are against freedon of speach and are just trying to enforce a federal regulations on more and more freedoms Useing incodents ass school shootings and 911 to take more and more freedoms.look to the future...
+0 karma
shigeta 7.9.2005 at 05:25:28 PM
Great post Andonuts. I totally agree.
+0 karma
andonuts 7.9.2005 at 05:20:11 PM
Consider this (admittedly far-fetched) analogy.
Suppose my company manufactures backpacks. For some reason, some joker in the design department decided to package a new issue of Playboy in the next line of backpacks. Before it's released we catch it, but (for some arbitrary reason) it would be too expensive to remove the pornography from all of the backpacks. So instead we sew the pornography into a hidden compartment that, for the sake of argument, is completely hidden from view. However, a few months after the backpack in on the market, some curious kid decides to cut open his backpack, stumbles upon the porn, and starts telling all of his friends who have the same bag; and now schoolchildren all over the country have pornography.
Who is responsible in this case? Simply because the pornography wasn't readily accessible doesn't mean it wasn't physically included in the package. It's hidden away sure; but all it takes is a kid with a pocket knife to find it -- and then every other kid with a pocket knife is able to find it, too. My company put the porn there to begin with, even if we did our best to hide it from every consumer that came into contact with the product.
I realize that it's not the best analogy because it's so implausible, but that's how I view it; Rockstar is responsible because they included actual pornographic data on the physical disk. Never mind whether or not you're "supposed" to see it or not -- people will find a way if it's there. Bottom line, when Rockstar was selling GTA: San Andreas, they were selling DVD's with a small amount of pornography encoded on them.
This isn't really the ESRB's fault; they can't hack apart every game that's published to see if there is some objectionable content cleverly hidden somewhere; it's a matter of Rockstar doing the responsible thing and taking the porn data off of the disk before selling it to the general public. There's not much Rockstar can do after the fact, but I think they should at least issue a public apology and fire whoever was responsible for removing the sex mini-game; I doubt they will, of course, and they will probably get away from all this unscathed.
Oh well.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.9.2005 at 05:13:08 PM
drizzt - That is so incorrect and you obviously know nothing about games and how developers leave unused data on the disk all of the time that hackers could put in. The ESRB never looks at that, because it has nothing to do with the real game. That is why this is bulls***. I knew what you said. I knew that it was bulls***, and you are right, your view is ignorant and I dont care.
+0 karma
drizzt 7.9.2005 at 05:03:21 PM
I agree with you fthat but rockstar created the minigame not the modders. So who/s responsible for Data created by the game developer that cant be access w/o a patch?
+0 karma
thekow 7.9.2005 at 04:57:10 PM
I went ahead and registered for an ESRB game publisher account; their site offered little-to-no information on how they go about their ratings other than what each rating stood for and the vague characteristics on each one. I'm hoping to see if I can find some clearer policies listed somewhere within the members section.
+0 karma
fthat 7.9.2005 at 04:47:39 PM
I have to agree that it is not the ESRB fault. Looking at my copy of San Anreas it says blood and gore, intense violence, strong language, strong sexual content, and the use of drugs. So you can do drugs, which is illegal and could kill you, but no sex. Don't we have our priorities mixed up here? Actually the only legal act in the game is this 'hot cofee' mod.
I don't think the ESRB was prepared for content that is on the disk, but not available in game without a modification. Does anyone know if their rating policy has something in place for this? The ESRB was created so the govt. wouldn't take control of video game content themselves. I hope this doesn't change.
I still think its the modders who could be at fault, though I could definately be wrong. Looking at the manual of the PC version it says "All Customized Game Materials must contain the proper credits to the authors of the Customized Game Materials with additional language that 'THIS MATERIAL IS NOT MADE, GUARANTEED OR SUPPORTED BY THE PUBLISHER OF THE SOFTWARE OR ITS AFFILIATES'"
But whatever happens with this, I think Rockstar will come out on top at the end.
+0 karma
drizzt 7.9.2005 at 04:28:14 PM
fererally = Federally
+0 karma
drizzt 7.9.2005 at 04:18:38 PM
Then it doesn't need to exist on the disc.
Bottom line is that if it wasn't meant to played then it wouldn't be on the disc. The data should not have been there or sould have been submitted or else we get politicians trying to fererally regulate the game industry.
But you probably didn't know that, nor do you care.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.9.2005 at 04:14:40 PM
drizzt - No, I don't, nor do I care. Its not supposed to be accessable. It is through hack. This isn't the first game to have in-tact leftover data. For this game to get rated on every bit of leftover data possibly useable on the disk is just unfair. That is neither the game industry's or the ESRB's job to poliece.
+0 karma
drizzt 7.9.2005 at 04:12:45 PM
Fine T16 either way its as redundant as PG13. Movie makers take out content for movies all the time to get a PG13 rating instead of R. The same goes for games. In the end Consumers and developers win.
What the hell is E10 anyway? Now thats useless!
+0 karma
xexyl 7.9.2005 at 04:08:01 PM
for drizzt: what do you think T stands for? asking for a T15 rating is like asking for a PG-15 rating. it's redundant and ridiculous.
+0 karma
drizzt 7.9.2005 at 04:02:43 PM
xen piranha the content is on the disc. Remember the Tiger Woods Golf for PS1 with the South Park video?
'Nuff said.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.9.2005 at 03:55:24 PM
f*** no that data should not have been reported to the ESRB. Its not part of the normal game.
+0 karma
drizzt 7.9.2005 at 03:50:35 PM
While he has a point(in this paricular case at least) Mr. Leland Yee still cant see the real problem. Anyone this "minigame" could be harmful to should not have the game. That is parents problem. Should this data have been reported to the ESRB? Yes! But once again this is not the ESRB's problem but the game developer did not submit the data so how could the ESRB be responsible.
Also on a note related to ESRB. Its time for the T15 rating. For game like Medal of Honor or MGS or Call of Duty that use blood realisticly in military type games or historic events.
Check these out...
http://d-fens.1up.com/do/blogEntry?bId=5179966&publicUserId=5629740
http://www.apa.org/releases/videogames.html
http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/ZDM/story?id=904842
+0 karma
daislite 7.9.2005 at 03:46:25 PM
hey, pixy! blow me
+0 karma
fillerbunny9 7.9.2005 at 01:05:22 PM
I have to put in an argument here about how this content is unlocked. it's not like someone hits A, B, A, C, A, B, B, and gets a message "you've unlocked sexy minigames! you r0x0r!" someone went into the games coding to bring these to light. this is not something that little billy could just stumble upon, it is something that someone had to crack into the game to get.
that being said, I'm tired of hearing all of this "Think of the children!" nonsense. the game was rated MA for a reason. this rating means that it is for mature audiences, ages 17 . if parents are so disinterested in buying a game titled after a felony level crime, that is rated akin to an R rated movie, and still buys it for their kid, they have absolutely no ground to stand on in this argument.
I do not fault the ESRB. they reviewed the final version of the game as it was intended to be played.
+0 karma
pixy misao 7.9.2005 at 12:04:32 PM
I'm glad the blame is here is properly being directed at the ESRB and not Rockstar Games. That said, I still think all of Rockstar's games suck.
+0 karma
ferr 7.9.2005 at 07:49:56 AM
There is no difference between MPAA and ESRB's rating system, ESRB's is modeled directly after the MPAA's system and it's most obvious on the scaling (MPAA/ESRB): G/E, PG/Y, PG-13/T, R/M, X (or NC-17)/Ao.
My question is, for those of you saying the philosophies are different and that it's like comparing apples and oranges, why is it different, and does it have to be different?
If the ESRB were to give a press release stating that the ESRB scaling philosophy should be considered identical to that of the MPAA's, what would really change? San Andreas would still have the M rating, and any 11 year old should be "carded" at their local rental store, just like it's done now. I think the main problem is that the parents see games as they saw them when they were young: mindless and childish. Of course they wouldn't rent a copy of Pulp Fiction for their 8 year old boy, but why wouldn't they rent them San Andreas, it's just a game, and games are meant to be super-fun-happy-time.
The things is, the MPAA even copied ESRB in their rating system, as ESRB had reasons for the rating within the rating tag (i.e. "This Game is Rated T. Mild Violence. Some Language." or "This Game is Rated M. Realistic Violence. Strong Language. Strong Sexual Themes.") years before the MPAA started doing it. And with tags like these it kind of makes me wonder how parents manage to buy some M-rated stuff for their children.
+0 karma
thekow 7.9.2005 at 05:15:05 AM
I think it's an entirely valid comparison. How do they have "entirely different philosophies?" No one ever said they were the same thing - my point was that it doesn't seem proper to allow nudity and sex in movies to be alright for a "17 years old or parental consent" label, while a game with the same material has to have a "17 only" label.
+0 karma
one2345 7.9.2005 at 05:08:13 AM
what does the r-rating in movies have to do with this...the ESRB and the MPAA are two entirely different organizations with entirely different philosophies, standards, and staff...simply because they complete similar goals, doesn't mean they are the same thing...
as for the content here, if it CAN BE unlocked, it has to be respected as part of the game and therefore it rockstar is responsible for it...otherwise you get into questions of additional content IE: unlockables and codes, etc....that stuff is not part of the game, and those have to be modified into the gameplay, its just that those are easier to put in....it is the same here, if ROCKSTAR allows for it to be put in, they are responsible...
+0 karma
thekow 7.9.2005 at 04:19:47 AM
I think I'm pissed at the fact that an R-rated movie can have sex in it, yet an M-rated game can't...? The age limitation is the same.
+0 karma
anifanatic 7.9.2005 at 04:01:42 AM
a) The 'children' obviously know what is hidden in the game and wish to unlock it, with a lot of effort. This isn't something you 'accidentally' unlock. They know it's there, so they know what they're getting into.
b) They've hacked into the game to unlock the mini-game. Which isn't legal. (or IS it?)
c) If they're old enough to play an M rated game, they should be 17. If sex is something they have an issue with and had no idea what it is, then their parents obviously are bad parents, and they are totally oblivious to the real world.
+0 karma
mime genocide 7.9.2005 at 12:14:37 AM
even if it was avalable in the game it should still be rated M. "but think of the children" WHAT DAM CHILDREN! A "M' rating means 17 so no children should be playing the game if you would be a good parent for once. A "M" rating is the video game vesion of the movie "R" rating so compare it to some of the worst "R" rated movies out clockwork orange, saving privet rian, full metal jacket, saw, house of a 1000 corpses, any action movie where the main charicter is a big strong guy who kills everybody at the end of the movie with explosives and large guns. now they all have far worse content than even the most violent game with nudity and sex. even with the nude patch doaxbv is still a "M" rated game. video game are not just that thing that little kids play. the are the largest form of media around with a average age group around 18-34. it is a form of media and should be jugded like other media.
on another point id like to make, all the stores that banned the gta games put it back on the shelves when they relized that it was selling millons of copys. so F*** them F*** the politicians and their lies and lasty F*** the parents who are too stupid to raise their kids.
+0 karma
fillerbunny9 7.9.2005 at 12:10:34 AM
wow, thanks C for giving your approval to my long rant. I wrote it while I was on lunch at work, but I thought it captured all I felt was pertinent.
with the update from the ESRB, I have to add I'm interested in how this plays out. I mean, after all, this is something that was made, yes, but something that was not included in the final playable version. what I think the industry might be wise to consider, is if they want to push the limits, create two versions of the game, an MA, and an AO version, sort of how movies are pulling all this "unrated" version nonsense. what worries me though, if games begin to be judged based on unreleased content, this could begin a dangerous precedent. further, this could create a huge backlash on the modding community, considering without modders cracking open that section of the game, this would not have been brought to light to begin with. it's like saying that we need to rate games based on the possibilities of what could lie within, without factual evidence. .
+0 karma
shigeta 7.8.2005 at 08:55:09 PM
If you tried to make a game of RE4's scope with RE4 on GCN graphics it would make the PS2 explode. :P
Thanks for the explanation, but I still think they could do a tad better than this nonetheless, especially for a PC or Xbox version. I know both are capable of far better than this.
+0 karma
andonuts 7.8.2005 at 08:36:29 PM
They are that way because of how much other stuff the GTA engine has to render at once. If you tried to make a game of GTA3's scope with RE4's graphic engine it would make the PS2 explode.
That's perhaps the only worthwhile thing the next generation of consoles might be capable of doing.
+0 karma
shigeta 7.8.2005 at 08:02:57 PM
Seriously, I can't believe how bad these graphics are in the day of RE4 and the like. They look like a PSone title.
+0 karma
beelzebozo 7.8.2005 at 07:28:21 PM
Arguing that it must be fan-made because the character models suck when discussing a Grand Theft Auto game is bunk. I'm tempted to type about thirty back-to-back "ha"s to express my disdain for that argument, but I won't.
The point is this: the models in the game that Rockstar ADMITS to making suck.
+0 karma
eightbitonline 7.8.2005 at 06:41:24 PM
Not THAT'S an iPod commercial.
+0 karma
nosemaster 7.8.2005 at 06:36:44 PM
They cut it out though, it was a modder who unlocked it in the game, there's no way that it could have been accessed without modding the game...
Therefore that's ridiculous. Gonna rate DOA:XBV AO too because of all the nude patches?
+0 karma
nosemaster 7.8.2005 at 06:33:04 PM
Goddamn that is quite scandelous, him being fully clothed and everything...
+0 karma
pojo 7.8.2005 at 06:14:22 PM
Personally, the game should be rated AO for other things...but this is just disgusting.
Why didn't Rockstar just take it out all together? It isn't funny, it isn't arousing (unless you're some kind of tool that dreams about Lara Croft all day), and it could get them into trouble. It's pointless.
Anyway, I think the ESRB is doing a fairly good job, but a lot of their decisions make me scratch my head. This wasn't the fault of the ESRB, though, because I doubt Rockstar gave them this scene when they were deciding on a rating.
+0 karma
drumlord 7.8.2005 at 06:04:16 PM
By the way. Anybody who thinks the ESRB is in any way at fault, wrong, or a failure here should check out this page:
link It tells you exactly how the ESRB rates games, which is that the game publisher has to provide the most explicit content in video form to them. In rare cases, like when the game raters don't agree, they actually play the game to best determine the rating.
So for one, I'm guessing the raters all agreed upon an M rating so they wouldn't have played the game. And second, even if they had played the game, they wouldn't go out of their way (or probably have any clue how) to hack it and unlock a hidden sex feature. So whatever your stance is on how the game should be rated and who dropped the ball here, the ESRB is not responsible and will unfortunately take yet another hit in the mainstream media.
+0 karma
redwar 7.8.2005 at 06:04:14 PM
This is a comment directed at mikek313. Who said: "...stop all this damn nonsense and stupid laws the right wing is trying to pass to protect stupid people from causing themselfs harm..." Maybe you should get your facts straight before you start trying to place blame on the right wing. Tem Leeland Ye is a DEMOCRAT FROM SAN FRANSICO CALIFORNIA!!! THE LEFT WING! Geez man, I'm sick and tired of people trying pin this stuff on conservatives. Illinois(a blue state) is the first state to actualy pass a ban on M video games, and it was very poorly done at that. And the most outcries about video game violence and the like has come out of California. Watch the news and read the facts before you start using your bias to flame the innocent.
+0 karma
c 7.8.2005 at 05:58:29 PM
fillerbunny9 wins completely, argument over.
+0 karma
mikey 7.8.2005 at 05:56:48 PM
Man, what's wrong with people when they can't differentiate between nudity and sex? All of you who have said "but the sims are naked! Ao!"... Yes, they are naked, No they do not partake in virtual acts of sex. Yes, it is blatently suggested, but I've never seen my sims eating pussy.
GTA should have already been Adult Only. Any game this violent should be.
+0 karma
thekow 7.8.2005 at 05:42:23 PM
I'm torn. I think I agree with the AO rating because, in all reality, the content is available. Anyone who acts as though there isn't a decent population of young kids who would know enough about the internet to find the proper tools is just ignorant.
This doesn't mean I agree that the ESRB has "failed." They give games ratings for a reason, and up until now I don't think anything has really been "mislabeled."
+0 karma
mikek313 7.8.2005 at 05:28:58 PM
Now this really irks the hell out of me, Tem Leland Yee making the statement that "Once again, ESRB has failed our parents." When is someone going to realize that our parents are failing society and stop all this damn nonsense and stupid laws the right wing is trying to pass to protect stupid people from causing themselfs harm......
+0 karma
fillerbunny9 7.8.2005 at 05:19:18 PM
you know, sexual mini-games aside my argument has always been this: the games are titled GRAND THEFT AUTO. gee, that sounds perfect for my ten year old son. I think that if you're a parent, and you are going into a frenzy over this kind of thing, you should examine what you have been getting your children, and consider how responsible you've been. these things are rated for a reason, and woe be the parent who gets whatever their child wants without setting boundaries. there are too few parents who pay attention to children and their gaming habits, and instead just buy the game to shut their kid up.
as for our friend the senator, it is not the job of the government to police the media. we have a certain thing called freedom of speech. (at least we're SUPPOSED to) that the game received a rating of MA is reflective of what is in the final version of the game, not what is leftover data on the disk.
as for Rockstar, I would wager they knew this would be found, as there have been PLENTY of hacks into the previous two titles. they knew this would stir up controversy, and therefore knock sales numbers further up. GTA has never been my cup of tea, and while I think they have achieved something great from a technical standpoint, the gameplay doesn't interest me. even if Rockstar did not intentionally leave this in to create controversy/sales, I do not agree with the idea that it just should not be on the disk. the process of removing the specific files involved likely would be time consuming at best, and outright difficult otherwise. further, there were hacks to the latest Leisure Suit Larry title that would remove the moasaics in the game.
as far as I am concearned, this was bound to happen sooner or later. I think that history has shown that we constantly like to test boundaries, push the envelope on what is appropriate, and redefine what is and is not possible. I remember similar about 10 years ago with: oh noes! Mortal Kombat is a fighting game with blood and gore! it's going to be the apocalypse! we're still here, the world's not been destroyed, and life goes on.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.8.2005 at 05:08:34 PM
Those models look like the rest of the models in GTA:SA. And yes, its almost comical. They probobly decided not to include it in the main game because of this kind of buzz, but you gotta admit, it kind of would add to the overall environment of GTA:SA.
Oh, and to daislite. Its as teitoku said. The HACK is fanmade.
+0 karma
dannyhibiki 7.8.2005 at 05:05:23 PM
daislite and six6sixwitch, you are the guys that are being pretty dumb.
Read, comprehend, then comment.
Rockstar originally programmed the sex minigames. It was probably decided it went too far for an M rating early in development and canned. Which may be why the models may look off (however GTA isn't exactly known for its great looking models).
The way to access the minigames was made by fans.
If Rockstar didn't really want this to be accessible they should have taken it off the disc. Plain and simple.
As much as I hate politicians screaming about videogames, he has a legitimate point, even though the average player won't be able to access this anyway.
+0 karma
drumlord 7.8.2005 at 05:03:40 PM
Welcome to all the /.ers coming here today.
+0 karma
hippoofdoom 7.8.2005 at 04:29:54 PM
Yeah, those models really look stupid. It almost looks unfinished.
+0 karma
c 7.8.2005 at 04:26:57 PM
Haha, what's the ESRB going to do? That's so cute.
+0 karma
daislite 7.8.2005 at 03:26:50 PM
well, yes.
+0 karma
six6sixwitch 7.8.2005 at 03:19:36 PM
Yeah, people are pretty dumb here...IT IS NOT ROCKSTARS FAULT...LOOK AT THE PHOTOS. Do those naked models REALLY LOOK LIKE THEY ARE PART OF THE GAME????
Sigh. Stupid people can't handle freedom so of course let the State take care of everything, daddy!
+0 karma
daislite 7.8.2005 at 03:07:30 PM
GOD CAN'T ANY OF YOU READ WHAT I SAID?
+0 karma
jekku 7.8.2005 at 03:05:49 PM
Yeah, it's definitely on the discs. O__o So, I wonder if they will go the extra mile and include this mini-game in the sequel.
Possibly. But, prolly not. Since places like Wal-Mart won't carry it. >__> But, man. You can do anything in Grand Theft Auto. Can you imagine how bad this will get in future titles?
Already, players can: eat, drink, work out, target practice, date women, have sex with women, drive, grab some friends and do a drive-by, go clubbin', play pool, and more.
The list will only grow in the next game. And! This will get even more hectic when GTA goes online. >_
+0 karma
teitoku 7.8.2005 at 03:04:00 PM
Yes, the hack is fanmade. The minigame is from rockstar. Rockstar hid it away with no way of accessing it. FANS MADE a hack to play the minigame.
+0 karma
daislite 7.8.2005 at 02:52:34 PM
Umm, it's not fanmade.
.........
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.8.2005 at 02:22:16 PM
The madness is to condemn Rocstar for a fanmade hack.
+0 karma
daislite 7.8.2005 at 02:19:15 PM
I would like to commend Vinny for adding a sensible note to all this madness, which allowed me to wipe the froth of madness from my face after reading most of what people have said here.
+0 karma
fthat 7.8.2005 at 02:17:56 PM
Just a thought: Don't most EULA's state something to the affect that you are not allowed to modify the code of said game. I don't know for sure, as I don't read them. Tecmo sued the person who modded that volleyball game.
And what about God of War? These games are rated MATURE for a reason. Why aren't movies held to the same accountability? GTA is definitely the most popular scapegoat of this decade. It gets blamed for everything. The funny thing is, Rockstar thrives off of publicity like this. Now that this story has been released, I bet millions of people are downloading this mod right now, who otherwise wouldn't have known about it.
+0 karma
ninx 7.8.2005 at 02:11:30 PM
Agreed Vinny.
+0 karma
vinny 7.8.2005 at 02:08:51 PM
The latest on Gamespot says that the ESRB is investigating this. And they also said that it looks like Rockstar left these in on purpose...
I'm wondering if they did indeed leave it in on purpose. Rockstar just has a thing for controversy and sell games. Rockstar just can't seem get enough. They'll do anything to spur up controversy and glady hurt the industry's image to sell some games.
I hope that they didn't leave this in on purpose.
+0 karma
ninx 7.8.2005 at 01:17:31 PM
This is disgraceful!
+0 karma
mcbride 7.8.2005 at 01:08:20 PM
I find it in poor taste when companies find it so important to incorporate sex into even video games. Then again, we are in the United States, where you can blow up an alien's head on cable TV but can't show the same alien feeling up some girl on the same station. Where the hell am I going with this? Anyway, though I don't exactly like Rockstar's take on what they were going to do, it's not actually supposed to be in the game. People only found it by jackassing around with their own software, which wasn't exactly intended. I basically see it as, "yeah, they're in there, but we didn't exactly want them to be." So whatever.
+0 karma
gamecrazy 7.8.2005 at 01:03:17 PM
So, because I can take a standard pencil eraser to a Glamour magazine and rub the clothes off of the models in the ads and draw on a pair of boobs, does this mean the magazine should be shipped out to everyone in a brown paper wrapper ala Penthouse?
If you look hard enough, there is pornography everywhere. I've seen kids playing with barbie dolls with no clothes, does this mean that Toys R Us has an obligation to place a sexual warning on each display?
The more you make sex something to be shameful and taboo, the more kids are going to gravitate towards it. As a father of two, my main purpose is to show my kids what I feel is right (videogames) and wrong (politics) and let them go out in to the world to experience life for themselves. But maybe I am of the minority of parents who actually sits down with their kids to play games, watch their TV shows, dress up teddy bears, and show general interest in what they are doing.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.8.2005 at 01:00:50 PM
No, Rockstar did not leave these games in. During normal gameplay there is no way to unlock them. Okay, you are mad that rockstar made these in the first place. Whatever. But it should not be rated AO for something that is nowhere to be found in the actual game itself, but is leftover data on the disk and has to be hacked into the game.
+0 karma
shigeta 7.8.2005 at 12:47:05 PM
Rockstar DID leave these games in, whether you need a hack or not to access them. It's one thing for them to leave in some random minigame on the discs, but not a sex minigame! There is no reason for that; they should have known someone would hack into it. I don't know if it should be given an AO rating or anything, but Rockstar should be ashamed of themselves. Seems like they're trying to commit company suicide by leaving this **** in and not telling anyone. I think most of the political crap about videogames is BS, but I do believe that this is something that needs to be addressed in some form.
+0 karma
chocoboy 7.8.2005 at 12:38:25 PM
OMG... digital people having sex! Guess what... there are movies where REAL people are NAKED and having SEX! All it takes is a ten year old whose parents have cable and is watching cinemax after 10pm to see it. So for god's sake you moronic politicians you will suffer the burning pain of inconsitnency in hell where you will reside for your blatant popular politics driven stupidity.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.8.2005 at 12:32:23 PM
Okay morons. ROCKSTAR DID NOT LEAVE THESE GAMES IN! The leftover data was still on the disk and is not accessable in the normal game. You have to f***ing hack it in. For that to effect the rating is retarded. If you disagree you are also retarded. Thank you.
+0 karma
wulfson 7.8.2005 at 12:26:55 PM
People keep saying "It was stupid to have left them on the disc"...there are a huge number of games with things left on the disc that didn't make it into the final game. The problem here is that it would take a lot more time and effort to completely remove some things than it would to simply bypass them. Programmers aim for modular code, yes, but it's difficult to achieve 100% modularity. You can't simply find the file labeled "Sex Game" and delete it. Games aren't like movies, you can't just cut the film.
+0 karma
axle 7.8.2005 at 11:54:41 AM
V They could've just not made them and been less perverted.
Seriously, though, bad play on Rockstar's behalf. I hate the game already (I think it's the most retarded franchise out there), but doing this is like trying to close the door to your own coffin.
Oh, and did you know that if you shoot Samus with her own charged up beam in the original SSB you can see her N4K3D!? OMG IT IS T3H H4\/\/T!!!111!!oneone!
+0 karma
bluelander 7.8.2005 at 11:50:28 AM
I've always thought the GTA games should have an AO rating, with or without the sex minigame. I mean, if a pornographic video game can get an AO rating, then why is it that a game that allows you to steal cars, kill cops, beat up hookers, and commit random acts of violence on the streets can get away with only an M rating?
+0 karma
vudu 7.8.2005 at 11:28:50 AM
"The least Rockstar should have done was to remove them completely before selling the game."
Out of curiosity, what's the most they could have done? Created a time machine and went back in time to undo the creation of the mini-game?
+0 karma
dragon girl 7.8.2005 at 10:25:41 AM
It was stupid for Rockstar to leave these games in. >.< It was only a matter of time before someone figured out how to hack into them. Right now I would understand if they decided to switch the game to an AO rating, but I doubt it will hardly hurt the game's sales since so many people own it already.
+0 karma
sugoi 7.8.2005 at 10:14:11 AM
If only Yee had bothered to do some research, he would have found that this isn't available without extensive hacking. Said hacking is not easily done without a fair amount of technical knowledge or special hardware. Heck, how many kids even have usb memory card readers?
Ugh, I wish I lived in CA so I could call Yee up and set him straight.
+0 karma
questworld 7.8.2005 at 08:55:19 AM
What I find even more ridiculous is that there are so many gamers that comment on placing blame solely on parents as if companies like Rockstar are "only doing their job" or "it's a form of artistic expression." What nonsense. It's your guilty pleasure. Admit it. It's a shameless thing these companies put in their games just for the giggles. But you people brush it off and say it makes the game better or some idiotic remark like that. The politicians and parent groups aren't suddenly the bad guys here you know.
+0 karma
andonuts 7.8.2005 at 08:54:29 AM
Rockstar probably should've realized that people would find it when they released it for the PC, given how often people modded the last two games.
I think the politician is right in this case, if only out of principle. It was a mistake on Rockstar's part but they really should've been more responsible about the content they included in their game, immediately accessible or not. They should've known better.
+0 karma
aztec triogal 7.8.2005 at 06:50:34 AM
I find YeLeLeYeLee's (whatever) comment funny that the ESRB let down parents. I find that ironic because it's parents and everyday people that rate these games. As for the rating itself, I see no reason to change it. The game does have to be modified, tampered with, in order for these things to be seen. It might be on the disk, but a 3rd party still had to go in and change the original coding, what the game was, in order for this to be seen.
+0 karma
beelzebozo 7.8.2005 at 06:38:17 AM
What's up with R*? Are they thirteen years old?
It's just stupid of them to make something so reduntant and childish, much less to leave it on the final copies of the game.
All they've done is give their detractors more ammo. Essentially, they may have screwed themselves on this one--this only serves to solidify the public at large's view that R* is only interested in seeing how much violence and debauchery they can fit into one game.
Smooooooth.
+0 karma
ferr 7.8.2005 at 05:41:27 AM
There's a sex mini-game in God of War.. you can't miss it, plus there's a bunch of boobies in that game as well.
There's also a Nude Hack for The Sims which removes the pixelation that occurs when your Sim takes a shower/changes/etc. It should be rated AO! So should that Dead or Alive game that had a nude hack to show some nude character in a cut scene!
How is an M rating even any different from an R rating in film? Both restrict audiences under the age of 17, and for mostly the same reason. You can find both M and R at any rental store, and you won't find X or Ao at any franchise stores. If A Clockwork Orange can get an R rating, then San Andreas should be able to get an M rating.
+0 karma
fthat 7.8.2005 at 04:45:30 AM
This mod has been out since a day or two after San Andreas was released for PC.
Extra content that didn't make it into the game is left on the disk all the time. This is nothing new (except that it involves sex).
As far as the ratings. I never understood the 17 mature rating. If they would just follow the movie ratings they wouldn't have these problems.
Personally I don't get what the big deal is about sex in this country. We can have tons of gore and sick violence, but the second there is some sex, everything goes to hell. Its just the opposite in most other countries.
I find it funny myself.
+0 karma
blkstarr 7.8.2005 at 03:57:38 AM
"That would be like people rating Half-Life AO because people can download/make naked player models/skins."
I disagree for a few reasons:
-The people created these skins from scratch, which would ultimately have no effect on the final rating. The people who hacked this out of GTA:SA did so because R* left it there, for whatever reason. As the developer did this, it would reflect the rating.
-Those skinned models could never be used in a sexual mini-game, which OBVIOUSLY goes beyond a Mature rating. Because of that, it probably would have never come to the public light in the first place. (i.e, naked Sims)
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.8.2005 at 03:29:26 AM
Really I could care less that someone hacked the game and found this. Hell, I think its pretty cool that it wasn't taken out completely. It means Rockstar was thinking about fighting this battle but decided not to. It really just adds to the game. However it was not mean't to be played in the final game and therefore it should not be counted in the ESRB rating. That would be like people rating Half-Life AO because people can download/make naked player models/skins.
+0 karma
age 7.8.2005 at 03:20:30 AM
parents are supposed to monitor the games their children play, what they watch on tv, what they do on the interweb and so on. if a 13 year old gets on the internet, manages to obtain, then implement the hack, for something that a developer disabled in their game. you have to go a great deal of your way to enable these features, and last time i checked your not supposed to be modding your software unless the developer permits (i dont know if R* has, but still).
of course it was irresponsible R* to leave something this taboo on the disc, whether they forget too or not. you can give GTA:SA an AO rating, but considerring its already sold like hotcakes, and anyone who doesnt have it already is going to get one now that it has novelty value. . .
i think the only end result is a lot of pnps (parents n politicians) get irate, GTA:SA either folds, get an AO rating and alot of free publicity, or R* pleeds freedom of speech or something, nothing happens, lots of free publicity.
sorry for ranting, pnps tend to aggrivate me.
+0 karma
vinny 7.8.2005 at 03:05:00 AM
Thanks a lot ingenious idiot(s) who unlocked this... as if the video game industry doesn't have enough problems as it is.
And if the politicians are so b*tchy about the ESRB (who DID their f*cking job!), then why don't they make their own system if they think they can do one better?
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.8.2005 at 03:01:12 AM
Okay, for those of you who are not getting this, these can only be unlocked by mods/savestates which are essentialy hacks developed by various groups on the net. These features were not meant to be playable in the final game. You have to go out of your way to download these hacks in order to play these features. The data is on the disk. That does not mean it was meant to be played. For it to get an AO rating for this is nothing less than complete bulls***. That is all.
+0 karma
blkstarr 7.8.2005 at 02:21:00 AM
It's not precisely fair for him to lambast the ESRB like this, considering I'm more than willing to bet that they had absolutely no idea these things were in there. I mean, how would they? It's very likely that R* didn't mention considering they didn't expect anyone to find them (which is careless on their behalf to leave them on the disc in the first place if they didn't want to use them), and therefore it's likely that the board would have been legitimately unaware. However, it's going to be impossible to convince parents of this argument once this gets out. This is REALLY in bad taste, R*. I'm actually a bit ashamed of them here. I'm all for artistic expression, (BELIEVE ME, this will be a big thing of mine when I make it to the industry as a designer one day - hopefully :) ) but this isn't the way I believe things should be handled. There's a line between artistic freedom, and just debauchery. When you cross that line, it doesn't only reflect poorly on you, it reflects poorly on the industry. The ESRB doesn't deserve this, hell they're a faceless body; those shouldn't ever be responsible for millions of children across the world.
With that openly playable in the game, it SURELY would have deserved an AO rating. With it hidden for no reason, R* deserves a bit of reprimanding.
+0 karma
wolvenone 7.8.2005 at 02:04:48 AM
I'm honestly of mixed feelings here... on one hand, I feel that any game that does have such a mini-game, should probably get an AO rating, but on the other-hand it seems this mini-game was taken out of the final-version which is why a mod is needed to unlock it.
Ugh... well... darn modders, darn politicians, and darn sleazy game developers. May a pox be upon them all.
+0 karma
msz 7.8.2005 at 02:01:11 AM
Some of you are missing the point. The minigames are indeed present in the games, left by Rockstar themselves. All you gotta do is some how unlock them with modified saves and whatnot. The least Rockstar should have done was to remove them completely before selling the game.
+0 karma
tonysama 7.8.2005 at 02:00:29 AM
So Yee's solution to this problem is more government. Yeah, like that's ever worked for anything ever.
+0 karma
c 7.8.2005 at 01:58:48 AM
If. I. Hear. One. More. F'ing. Thing. About. JFK Reloaded. I. Will. Burn. The. Internet.
+0 karma
beever 7.8.2005 at 01:57:26 AM
I can't wait until people who have actually played video games start getting positions in the government so that we'll have to put up with less and less of this BS.
+0 karma
tpfkanep 7.8.2005 at 01:52:05 AM
"Plain and simple, parents cannot trust the ESRB to rate games appropriately or the industry to look out for our children's best interests."
- Parents should take responsibility for their offspring. Not the industry, and not the ESRB.
+0 karma
daislite 7.8.2005 at 01:30:35 AM
why does hacking the feature to make it available make them perverts?
+0 karma
hippoofdoom 7.8.2005 at 12:54:59 AM
I agree with the below comment. The sex mini-games are not supposed to be available, and when some perverts hack the game to unlock this stupid games, it suddenly means that the game has this sexual content and should be rated AO? That seriously is the stupidest thing I've heard. Plus, if a parent already let a kid under 17 have this game in the first place, they should be the ones blamed for their children seeing the content.
+0 karma
xen piranha 7.8.2005 at 12:29:58 AM
It should be AO for content that has to be hacked into the game? They are going too far with that one.
+0 karma
jekku 7.8.2005 at 12:18:17 AM
Hm, the sales of this game are probably going to skyrocket. o_o; Eh, maybe not. A lot of people already have it.
+0 karma
bjork 7.8.2005 at 12:05:11 AM
Is he punching that girl in the ass with brass knuckles?
Tee-hee, that's hardcore.
+0 karma
daislite 7.8.2005 at 12:00:02 AM
Aww, no pics of the uncensored version?
But seriously, the sex thing is one of the stupidest things Rockstar has ever done. Maybe they even left it in for controversy, but it's still a pretty stupid idea.
hmmm.....actually, I'm put in mind of Rings of Power and it's topless woman in the Genesis version...
digg this story!
