Everyone keeps comparing the PS3 to the PS2, and that's a ridiculous assumption.

PS2 offered a DVD player, backwards compadability and the best third party support a whole year earlier than everyone else (save Sega and the Dreamcast, a company whom was never taken seriously after the 32X) yet at a standard price.

PS3 offers blue ray, which is technology that most people don't understand nor feel that they need to go with their rickety old tvs, (not to mention that it costs twice as much). If giants like Square-Enix are even wary of publishing games for the system, then that says something right there. RPGs pretty much start and end with Square Enix these days, especially regarding popularity.

Don't get me wrong, PS3 will sell out of it's launch shipments through the holidays. But considering that Nintendo is launching with about 10 x times as many Wii's consoles, and 360's head start just looming over everything (and the already mixed reputation and reception PSP is leaving)... you'd be a fool to think that PS3 is going to do as well as either PS1 or PS2. It isn't logical.

Its about $1,000 for the hardware package. Which, incidentally, isn't too bad.

Let me restate...

I think the PSP is doing well enough that Sony is getting some kind of revenue for its game development department, that it probably won't go under if the PS3 fails.

There are other branches of the company that are doing relatively okay.

But I won't deny that its been rough for Sony the past couple of years. SOE's huge multi-million dollar ad campaign for EverQuest 2 didn't net success (though IMHO, WoW is the only really successful MMO), the PSP hasn't been able to keep up with DS, once Nintendo's blockbuster titles started rolling in. PS3's development costs have been huge, and with Apple ousting Sony with iPods over walkmans and Sony's own brand mp3 player. Plus don't forget the Sony BMG rootkit suits. The company has been hit pretty hard with a number of issues. With Blu-Ray being a make-or-break for the company, it does seem like if the PS3 fails, or if Blu-Ray fails. The company could go under. But, I'm sure that Sony has enough money to recoup the losses they've had over the past few years, that, if the PS3 doesn't succeed, they can still aim for other products for new sources of revenue.

One thing that might be interesting of note, the Blu-Ray collaboration group (consisting of major tech companies like Dell, IBM, Sony, etc) apparently will be charging $30 royalities per unit produced. In other words 30 dollars for every Blu-Ray disc to be officially tagged as a Blu-Ray disc (much like the official DVD tag on DVDs). That's enormously expensive. But if companies go for it, the revenue generated would be enough to keep Sony afloat.

This is such a friendly conversation.

"PSP isn't holding strong in comparison to DS (though I believe its holding up to turn some profit for Sony, so they don't go kaput if the PS3 fails)."

Interestingly enough, I was reading this discussion *on* my PSP while in bed, and since I'm not logged into GAF there (and it's a real SOB to type on), I had to turn on my computer just to respond to this.

No, I doubt the PSP is earning Sony any real money right now. The hardware is being sold at a loss (and I mean it for real, not just citing that stupid "consoles are always sold for a loss" fallacy), and the software isn't moving. It's sort of the perennial question for the PSP. The devices are being sold well-enough, but nobody's buying any games or movies for them.

Sony might be getting some royalties in on the game sales, but I have to think that, especially with developers moving to the DS (back to it, in some cases), they're going to have an increasingly harder position to negotiate with publishers on. Heck, at this point, they might simply be forgiving royalties just to get the software out there.

I really don't understand the current situation with the PSP. While I certainly wouldn't say that publishers are flooding it with titles, they're certainly not abandoning it either, and not very many people seem to care, but the publishers keep on doing it.

I just hope Disgaea actually gets published. I'd much rather play that at night in bed than on my PS2.

So, yeah, to wrap all that up, I don't think it's correct at all to compare the PSP to the Game Boy in terms of "propping up the company". Sony's coffers are lined with the continued sales of the PS2 and its software...though the lining grows thinner as of late.

I think the question shouldn't really be "Will the PS3 fail?" so much as it should be "Will Sony go under?" They have pretty much all their resources tucked into Blu-Ray that they won't survive *as a company* unless they hit it out of the park.

Not without a serious economic investment, could a system be supported for 3 years until its user base and market penetration start churning profits.

Only real company that can do this is Microsoft, and to a lesser extent, Nintendo due to its handheld/system one-two punch. Even if one system may be straggling on one market or the other, Nintendo usually can pull off good sales with the other systems they have. Plus having back-up plans if necessary.

At this point, PS3 is simply too expensive to build and play a waiting game of 3 years before it starts pulling its weight in the market. Sony, almost seems like they're putting everything they got into this new Blu-Ray format and PS3 system. PSP isn't holding strong in comparison to DS (though I believe its holding up to turn some profit for Sony, so they don't go kaput if the PS3 fails).


It's rather unlikely that the PS3 will fail.

I could pretty much say it may end up being the dominant console. We've been through this before. Recall the Sony PS2 shortages because of factory openings and chip shortages. It is somewhat relevant that, PS2 had been out in Japan for almost a year before it released stateside as well. So the market saturation with PS2 in Japan, had already decided to the game developers that its better to develop for that console, than risk falling profits for systems that would be out a year later.

Japan is still the driving force for game development. It really does, and will continue to lead the game industry. The US definitely has a bigger market (and potential) and in general, US economy isn't as bad off as the Japanese economy. But when you have Japanese game studios outnumbering US and European studios by a 4 to 1 ratio. You can pretty much expect Japan to be taken more seriously (and in region) have greater competition for innovation, gameplay elements and technology. That greater concentration of game development in Japan, tends to have the nation producing higher-quality titles over the US.

Not to be-little the US game development side, but game development studios in the US are still very small. Industry is barely growing in the US, don't really want to point fingers at why its that way (EA). But when the US video game workforce is approximately 33,000 workers over Japan's 250,000. Its within reason to believe, that the US can't really take the lead until US game development is able to grow, without independant studios being pushed off the map.

Do also keep in mind that US studios don't really stress innovation as much as Japan does. Prefering tried and true. Also keep in mind that most game development studios seemed locked in MMORPG development, or slow death of PC gaming. The death of PC gaming in the US hasn't been kind to a number of existing studios. And as we have seen through this generation, numerous game developments from all corners of the world have hit risk of downfall. In the case of Japanese business. Usually, most companies rather not see the downfall of a long existing company and attempt to merge or purchase its assests. So mergers such as those with Namco Bandai, Square Enix and its numerous aquisations (Taito anyone?), Sega and Sammy, etc, etc.

After all that, I agree with soul4ger's last two posts!

Japan still leads the market to some extent, but "the 360 is the first real chance in 20 years for an non-japanese system.

Good quote from pizza though:

So, hypothetically, it would be wise for Japanese devs to switch their support if the 360 is more successful in the US and Europe, but there isn't much of an indication to suggest that will actually happen"

Sure, it makes sense, buw will devs go for it? That's the question.

Meanwhile, what if Wii does a strong second in every terrirory? (Highly likeley at least for the first year or so IMO) Doesn't that mean it will win worldwide?

I never quite understand these fanboys who say 'sure the PS3 will be off to a slow start, but in three years when the price drops and developers get the hand of it the extra power will make the Wii (and 360, according to some) look crap, and then it will take off'.

How can a system survive those three years without many sales? By that time devs will have cancelled all games for the system, and the PS4 will be being rushed in.

I definitely agree that GTA was the single game that made the most impact this gen. That's undeniable. And I definitely also agree that each region does its own thing, partly. And, again, I definitely agree that it would be wise for Japanese devs to shift their support to the best-selling console across all territories, and not just in Japan.

However, I haven't ever seen anything to indicate that the best-selling console in Japan will ever be anything different from the best-selling console in the world. There isn't much to prove this, but again, I use the DS/PSP battle as an example. It was obvious that the US and Europe were more hyped about the PSP than the DS. The PSP consistently KILLED the DS in sales in the US and Europe up until Japan started to embrace it, and Japan embraced it because of Japanese games. Japan, namely Nintendo, supports the DS, and ultimately, that has led to the European and US devs shifting more of their attention to the DS, not the other way around. It was the PSP's game to win the rest of the world, but without Japan, it never had a chance. So, what I'm saying with this is that I don't think there's any reason to believe that the 360 stands a chance of outselling the PS3 in the US and Europe if it isn't outselling it in Japan. So, hypothetically, it would be wise for Japanese devs to switch their support if the 360 is more successful in the US and Europe, but there isn't much of an indication to suggest that will actually happen.

Wow, the comments in this have gotten pretty out of hand. Strange turn for an article about a few PS3 launch titles getting delayed.

One thing that was said caught my attention, and I will now respond to it.

It has been claimed that the US is the market that drives the gaming industry. This couldn't be more false. I'm not asking you to bicker back at me with, "But Nintendo is Japanese, of course they would say Japan drives the industry." It isn't about what Nintendo said, and it isn't about what you think, nor is it about what I think. Take a look at the sales data for every major console in the big three regions. What you can see is that the console that sells well and the software that performs well in the US seems to have absolutely ZERO effect on what goes on in Japan. As it was pointed out, the US has Madden, GTA, and Halo to drive sales, but NONE of those games did a thing for Japan. Japan has FF, DQ, Mario, Zelda, Metroid, Pokemon, RE, Tekken, MGS, etc., and you're going to say that those games don't have an effect on how consoles sell in America and Europe?

In different respects, all three regions march to the beats of their own drums, but the only region that refuses to march to the beat of the others' is Japan. It was Japan where the DS boomed when the rest of the world was laughing at it, only to be followed by a worldwide eruption of DS sales, making the DS by far the fastest selling console in history. It was Japan who denied the Xbox their exclusives, and the rest of the world left it behind in a DISTANT second place. It was Japan who stripped the N64 of its support, leaving it to be wasted by the PS1.

It is true that all of the regions have their influence, and each of them have a great deal of influence, but I am thoroughly convinced after seeing the American and European support of the PSP fail that it is Japan that drives the gaming market, and NA and Europe just follow suit.

That's the thing with Microsoft - they convinced everyone that they were much more successful then they actually were.

The reality is that the Gamecube DID get trounced - but so did the XB, by the PS2. Yet if you believe the media, MS and Sony were neck and neck, even though sony sold 5X them.

All good, sorry for getting carried away.

Doh again:

"IN fact, the XBox outsold the Gamecube every month in the last year except last November and december UNTIL MAY"

Overall picture: GC has only outsold the XBox by 200,000 in the US since last November.

"Yeah, but I think NPD shows that it's sold at least 100K per month (more like 130K) for the past year or so... If you consider that's 12 months, that's well over 1.5 million. Honestly, this is purely conjecture at this point, but if we consider that to be the case, then it would've gained at least a million on the Xbox since last holiday. I could be wrong, but I think the Xbox held at least a five million lead on GC at some point in NA."

The Xbox never had ANY signifigant lead in the US or worldwide. You're lying out your ass about the 100,000 a month, in the last year both consoles have sold about the same. IN fact, the XBox outsold the Gamecube every month in the last year except last November and April.

http://www.vgcharts.org/usaconscomps.php?name1=XB&name2=GC&type=0

I don't see how I was wrong, but if you sleep better at night believing it, that's fine. I don't know how having an extra year and a half to pad your sales is an "excuse.."

"to date", obviously.

And they had a lot more stock leftover. Another key difference.

And we're not just talking about Halo. Microsoft hasn't been PRODUCING Xbox hardware for almost a year and a half now. Any Xboxes that sell now are preowned, and don't go towards total installed base.

GC's 2005 holiday was very crappy. it couldn't have gained much there.

also, those numbers are similar to 2004's end numbers. GC was always close to XB.

it's not like Halo and stuff stopped selling when the XB was discontinued.

When are those numbers from? Let's not forget, after last Summer, Xbox was essentially dead in the US, as Microsoft had completely shifted its focus to the Xbox 360.. If you add in another year at $100, and another holiday season... I think you'll find that Nintendo probably added to its installed base here.

The Xbox DID stomp the GameCube. The only reason the GC hung in there worldwide is because the Xbox was a nonentity in Japan, but the GC performed fairly well. If you take out the Japanese market sales for both consoles... YIKES.

No, I wasn't bashing Brothers in Arms. I wasn't bashing any of them, in fact. Call of Duty is really good, too. And I used to like Medal of Honor, but it was getting a lot out of control when they released the third one on PS2.

And, scarecrow, two of the three great PS3 games you listed are developed in the West. Your "opinion" is largely wrong. Japanese games, for the most part, are only marginally important in the West. If your belief was so solid, the Xbox wouldn't have annihilated the GameCube in America and Europe. But it did. Nintendo had quite a bit of Japanese support for a couple years. Capcom, especially. It didn't mean anything. Xbox, and Xbox 360 now, built its popularity thanks to games developed here.

Brothers in Arms is a great series, and one of the best WWII shooters on the market.

It drove the system in the U.S. not in Japan.

Look it's easy to say that yes the U.S. is important but Japan matters just as much and PERSONALLY I think a bit more. I could be wrong on the bit more part though so hey *shrug*

Let's just wait and see. I sincerely don't want to argue.

Focusing on the news it's such a sad thing to see these games delayed but they're not GREAT games. We still got Resistance: Fall Of Man, MotorStorm, Ridge Racer 7(Online OMG! 14 damn cars), and some others.

U.S. may be the biggest, but the most important? I beg to differ. There have been MANY articles where Nintendo has mentioned MANY times that Japan is what drives video-games.

Not only that, but most of the companies are IN Japan so it should really matter a lot how they do there. Believe me is more than just 'bout money.

*agrees with cainkid*

joesteele, you have good points there, and hey you could be right too. We'll just have to wait and see.

I'd like to point out though, that to enjoy the 360 you'd ALSO need an HDTV.

Square-Enix talk 'bout supporting all systems is just like in the last generation. They'll make these Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles and Final Fantasy XI games. They're basically saying that they'll make rpgs for all systems but the CORE game which is the standared Final Fantasy is still being highly worked on for the PlayStation3. Not only that but if you go to IGN.com and read his full interview, SE has said that they're making a DEV kit specifically for Final Fantasy XIII and the PlayStation3 which will push the PS3 to its limits, so they're really committed.

And if Square-Enix does make their own console...it'd really have to be a HORSE...with better graphics than PS3/360. And they would REALLY have to be willing to take financial blows(at launch)since most systems at launch don't give the company any profit.

Yes but the Japanese factor plays a BIG factor.

The Japs know where Metal Gear Solid 4/Final Fantasy XIII/Gran Turismo 5 are headed.

It's clear and simple-so in the end they'll start getting their PlayStation3s and that'll keep the japanese companies on PS3s side.

Yes it can happen to any console but Nintendo not fighting with PS3 is the biggest factor of all. 360 is really a non-factor in Japan(AT THE TIME) so I'll count it out up to this date.

Correction: losing exclusives can happen to any console that isn't WAY out in the lead, like PS2 or Game Boy.

While I don't believe this means PS3 is "doomed", it's STILL BAD PUBLICITY on top off all the other negative press that has come out recently.

Drumlord:

Have you seen the X360 sales in Japan? The GBASP is outselling it at 5,000 units a month. So you have to wonder if the big Japanese Developers will waste their time on it.

ouch

Too bad. I bet more stuff is gonna get canned.

That's it. This is such a poorly-done launch that I'm going to use the following joke to dis 'em:

SONY AND CHER!

Bethesda confirmed a Q1 2007 release for Oblivion (thanks, cutriss). Now we're just waiting for Vivendi.

And dohhyulittle, you don't think cutriss and I know retailers use placeholder dates a lot? This isn't a matter of dvdboxoffice.com saying Final Fantasy XIII is coming out on July 1, 2008; this is a case of two of the most major online retailers of games changing the date for an upcoming title to a later date. Big difference there.

NBA 07 is Sony Exclusive, the EA game is NBA Live 07.
Get it straight.
There is also NBA 2k7. Like i said 3 NBA simulators = bad.

Wow good one cutriss, you got me there, more *unofficial* release dates.
I never believe retailers release dates without official confirmation from the publisher/developer.
Other retailers have it listed as other dates.

But i bet your the type that believes Halo3 will launch on November 1st 2007, right?

"it's only delays of multi-platform titles. not the end of the world."

Wouldn't the fact that they are multi-platform titles make it worse? Now ppl who wanted to play NBA 07 on their PS3's can go "well s***, I might as well just get a 360 so I can play it now."

If its a platform exclusive, then there's no other option to get it, then to simply wait for it. With multi-platform games, the options open up for you to give your money to someone else who is willing to give it to you now.

http://www.elderscrolls.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=588235

This confirms the Oblivion delay.

You can't really blame these developers for delaying. I'll bet some could have even stuck it out and released their games on time... But Sony really screwed them over with such a small amount of consoles. By the time there are enough consoles out there for the launch games to really make money, they'll be old news and there will be new games to be excited about.

So of course, why not delay the game and use that extra time to polish a bit more? Can't blame them at all.

No launch games is the new disk read error.

this is so lol i'm sorry.

It's amazing how perfect everything is going for Nintendo.

NBA Live.. Good 3 NBA simulators = bad.
Plus the NBA Street games are a lot of fun.

Going on retailer dates without an official announcement... yea. Nothing needs to be said on that.

Big victory for me. =)