terpfen: "No, it's not a generalization. A generalization is the application of certain traits to a broad audience. I didn't do that. I pointed out a factual trend among portable owners. That doesn't make it a generalization, that makes it reality.

"People who camp in line for consoles are idiots" is a generalization. "Most people don't play their portables while traveling" is actually true."

If there were smileys here I would spam this post with lols.

How old are you, 12? The lapses in logic are astonding. Are you trying to bend the space time continuum? You are wrong in so many ways here it's hard to believe you hit submit.

"There have been several posts from people saying that they see portable owners using their systems outside the home, and you are just quietly ignoring them."

Except, I stated near the beginning of the comment thread that I too have seen people using portables outside of their homes. The difference is, I've only seen a few--less than 10 total--in two major metropolitan areas over the course of the last two years.

There is no burden of proof here, because I'm not in a debate, and I don't care about proving a point to anyone, at least in this particular comment thread. Instead of you asking me where I came up with this idea, ask yourself why I would believe something like that. And, no, it's not because I made the whole thing up, as you seem to believe.

Dear Nekofrog, in reply to that about the DS, I guess its all down to if you wanted Nintendo to produce the DS to be more expensive or not. Sure, its no PSP in 3D terms, but the cost cutting N64 tech it, keeping it cheap to buy, the way handhelds should always be.

If you all wanted DS to be more expensive (and then moan about the price like everyone does with PSP) using new 3D chips, DS probably wouldn't be selling either like PSP. And yes N64 3D on DS isn't anything by todays standards, but do remember, the DS is not about cutting edge 3D graphics and never will be. Its about games and its got them in spades. When you are having fun, you care less about that kind of thing (i'll speak for myself anyways).

The DS selling faster than Nintendo can make them, shows that only a small minority of hardcore fans care about the graphics that much to not buy and miss out.

Hey Neko, no one has answered my challenge about western DS games from the previous post. Would you care to try?

Ahhhh! that makes the difference.

In that case, I will make correct use of the karma system.

Ok! Have a nice day unforgivingedges, finally we understand each other!

And unforgivingedges:

PLEASE do not threaten me again, I hate that.

That's a hint for you; take it and learn quickly ;).

Karma is for preventing abuse of the comments feature, like double posting in all caps (that's a hint for you; I suggest you take it and learn quick), or trolling.

What karma is NOT for:

-Reflecting your disagreement with what someone posts (barring the above)
-Abusing to hide comments from users you don't like

THEN TELL ME WHAT IT IS FOR.

I have to take issue with one thing in your post, onizuka. The idea that the DS has the right balance of 2d/3d is pretty much not true in my view. The 2d is barely a step up from the GBA, and the 3d is incredibly neutered.

If both had been increased just a tad more, everyone would benefit greatly.

It's not irony, neko, and it's not funny.

The irony of the post below mine is pretty funny.

"terpfen, it IS a generalization. Maybe you just don't get out enough?"

No, it's not a generalization. A generalization is the application of certain traits to a broad audience. I didn't do that. I pointed out a factual trend among portable owners. That doesn't make it a generalization, that makes it reality.

"People who camp in line for consoles are idiots" is a generalization. "Most people don't play their portables while traveling" is actually true.

terpfen, it IS a generalization. Maybe you just don't get out enough?

I mean, even at WORK sometimes I'll see patients or their family members playing on a DS. Nevermind seeing people on the bus or even during breaks in class sometimes at college. You'd have to be keeping your eyes shut pretty tight to think that people only use their portables at home.

Only nekofrog and terpfen use the -karma system to under rate other's commentaries. They will always have a plus 1 from each other...

I have put them a negative karma, because they desire it, they began this problem.

Yeah, you don't have to tell me why DS is a success. Still, that doesn't change the fact that most good games of DS aren't actually utilizing the potential the DS has. That's not to say the games are bad, just that they're nothing a GBA2 couldn't have done.

And actually, apart from maybe Kutaragi, Sony isn't really against 2d games that much. It's mostly SCEA which doesn't like them at all. SCEE & SCEI certainly don't have any problems with 2d games (which is why Tales of Eternia was released in Japan & Europe, but not in NA).


"but they'll never be as good at it as Sega, Nintendo, Capcom, Konami etc, the veterans."

Uhh... I think many would want to disagree with that. God of War is completely comparable to even the best action games those companies have ever done. Gran Turismos, even though they don't have damage modelling, are still polished and really well done driving games (and hopefully now with the power of the PS3 they could actually add some things that were missing previously, like damage modelling and better AI). I can guarantee you that there are a lot of people who think ICO is completely comparable to adventure games like Zeldas. So... Yeah, it's really bulls*** to say Sony's developers can never reach Nintendo, Capcom, Sega etc., especially when you could argue that most of those devs have gone downhill since the golden days and Sony is going up (game developing-wise, if nothing else). Sony has some of the most talented teams of the industry working for them (Naughty Dog, Polyphony Digital, ICO Team, SCE Santa Monica, Studio Liverpool etc. etc.). Of course not all of their games are great and there are a lot of misses amongst the hits (The Getaway, for one), but it's not like every game Nintendo has ever made has been a great one. The Getaway had a great story but due to sloppy gameplay it wasn't the game it could've been. Still, a game like The Getaway certainly has potential and if they can fix the problems of the earlier games then they could have a potential killer app on their hands

Maybe Sony doesn't have any legendary devs that have influenced the industry as much as someone like Miyamoto has. Still, it really doesn't have anything to do with the quality of the games they develope. It's harder nowadays for one developer to rise to a legendary status like Miyamoto, Uematsu & Sakaguchi are in. And you have to understand that Sony IS new in this area of expertise. Miyamoto has influenced the industry for about 20 years now, there aren't that kind of developers with Sony that have been in such an important & influental position for so long. Fumito Ueda is certainly on his way there, as is Kazunori Yamauchi.


Oh, and the games Sony develope have plenty of variety too. They have driving games, platformers, tactical shooters, adventure games, action games, music games, weird games, family games, RPGs... Pretty much a game for every genre there is. Of course the appeal is perhaps different than with Nintendo's games, different people play Wipeout & Mario Kart, but it's also false to say that Nintendo's library of games has somehow magically a lot more variety (when it doesn't).

You just have to wonder wether the people who buy Brain Training, Nintendogs etc. will actually buy many more games after they are finished with those. Some might, others might not. That's the problem with Wii & DS. Of course for the moment Wii Sports is making the whole family go crazy, but what's next? I know a few persons who still only play the original Game Boy & its Tetris. They were one of the millions & millions of people who bought a Game Boy. But it really didn't bring new people to gaming, just a few more Tetris obsessed people into the world. I could see the same happening with Wii & DS, to some extend. Apart from Nintendo's games, it's rare for DS games to be any more succesful than, say, PS2 games were when it had sold about as much. Yeah, DS games are dominating the Japanese charts (NA & Europe charts, not so much), but that's mostly because A) PS2 is starting to be at the end of its life-span and B) there aren't any other consoles that are succesful in Japan. You don't need to sell too much to get into the Top 10 (some weeks like 10,000-15,000 copies sold is enough). The DS games, apart from a few hits (Animal Crossing, Nintendogs, Brain Training and a few other, mainly Nintendo made, games), really don't sell that well. Or at least not exceptionally better than games for other handhelds/consoles.

I have to say that from the moment the PSP was announced, I said to many, it looks lovely but I really don't see Nintendo loosing out the handheld biz, after stupidly loosing the home market with their own arrogance. And not moving things forward in a proper way. And I was right too. Despite the PSP being cutting edge tech, many games will never be near to anything Nintendo can produce.

This is the main factor that many took for granted. Nintendo know how to make games and to a degree inspire other developers (mostly japanese ones) into making decent, well thought out games, whereas Sony in contrast are still learning how to make good games, let alone inspire other developers.

I am glad that Sony is getting better at creating games, God of War 1 and 2 are superb, Syphon Filter series is cool etc, but they'll never be as good at it as Sega, Nintendo, Capcom, Konami etc, the veterans. A big bravo for those smaller fish that buck the trend and do well, Atlus, Inis, Nippon Ichi etc.

The difference, Dear Azu, is that Nintendo can make different types of games to appeal to one or any audience. Their current philosophy of growing the market with new gamers is the right way to go. Sales of DS games prove that most people in japan that shyed away from gaming once everything went 3D are now buying again with DS (DSs are hard to find on sale now in japan). Pushing things into 3D is good, but 2D is still what stimulates japanese gamers to buy. This might also be because of their love for anime and manga, which themselves are also strong 2D media (which are very popular worldwide too).

Sure, I remember the DS drought within the first six months or so, but I knew, by just looking at the whole DS set up and imagining, what kind of games could be created with it. While japanese developers have found their feet with DS, many western developers prefer to develop for PS2/PSP and seem clueless about what to do with DS. Have any of you noticed that despite the DS dominance, 95% (or so) of DS games still come from japan?

Remember this, the DS capabilities don't all have to be used but its all about bending your mind and imagination around its strengths and create something cool. What does surprise is the lack of western development on DS makes it look like they can't create any good games unless they are in cutting edge spec PS3/360 graphics.

Sorry for the rant, but in short Sony have a long way to go yet. They can start by showing more respect to their customers (by letting us import games for PS2/PSP etc) and to 2D gaming (which they once underestimated and bashed, a clear sign they know little about games). They'll grow and learn though, Little Big Adventure is a good step already. Its all Nintendo's now though.

Also, check out this interesting article on game reviewers. Hmm, now I know why Jewel Summoner got a low score here.

http://pspupdates.qj.net/The-dark-secret-behind-getting-good-scores-from-game-reviewers/pg/49/aid/88282

"the PSP's library is still horribly limited."

Sorry, my list proves otherwise, AND it actually proves that PSP has more worthwile ORIGINAl games than ports/remakes (even if PSP started as a port handheld, the situation has changed drastically since then). Just because YOUR taste in games is so horribly limited that it seems none of the games from the wide selection of genres the PSP has don't interest you doesn't mean that PSP's library of games is bad. A good game is a good game, wether it's portable or not. I don't like soccer or football, yet I can admit Pro Evolution Soccer games & Madden 07 Wii are good games.

It's too bad if some think that just because PSP can't really be a platform for same kind of unique games as the DS is because it lacks a touch screen & dual screen, its games are not worth playing at home or on the road. Daxter is a great game. I'd play it even if it was for Virtual Boy. I'm glad I don't limit myself to the same kind of mentality some of you do. And even then, quite big a portion of the good games of DS are the kind of games that you could play on any console with little to no changes (Mario Kart DS, Castlevanias, Pokemons, New Super Mario Bros., Advance Wars, Mario & Luigi 2, Sonic Rush, Lunar Knights, Mega Man ZX and even Animal Crossing is perfectly playable with D-pad & normal buttons), yet, I don't hear anyone complaining about that. I mean really, I do love DS' games, but what games other than Nintendogs, Ouendan, Meteos, Kirby Canvas Curse, Trauma Center and the seemingly millions of different kind of Brain Training games are really games that make such good use of the DS' abilities that you couldn't really do it anywhere else (other than perhaps the Wii)?

Also, it's kinda absurd that so many love the GBA, yet when Sony releases PSP (which is, basically, a more feature-rich & more powerful version of GBA) and DOES have quite a wide selection of good & great games from different genres, everyone is acting like "normal" games are not meant to be portable or something. And how many of us bought a DS for 150$ when it didn't even have that good a library of games and the situation between PSP & DS wasn't that clear (when PSP still might've sold more than DS occasionally)? Now you can't buy a PSP with a wider selection of games than what DS had then and can't even pay 20$ more for it. Yeah, talk about hypocrisy.

I've lately been considering getting a new console, and while I've thought about getting a PSP in the past, I've been debating mainly between getting a Wii or 360. This new price drop complicates that a bit, and after seeing azu's list and being reminded why I've wanted a PSP, my decision is much more difficult. Had the price gone down below $150, I might have had my mind made up already.

That may be all good but doesn't change the fact PSP was nice but not enough. Wouldn't surprise me if rumours of PSP2 are right and Sony do anounce it at some point or another.

However, it'll be two years of PSP on the ropes soon. I really don't see this chnaging much, but PSP will get some good games along the way. Just not anything unique enough to distance it from its PS2 games, and that's where it'll fall down. Games like DMC and God of War are cool (on PSP or PS2) but won't grab the kind of gamers Brain Training, Trauma Center, Animal Crossing are getting on DS. Its all about the casual gamers, the same ones that once grew Sony's market ages ago, plus your aunt, uncle, granma and grampa too.

This isn't a slating of PSP, which I also own, but just the facts. Still best to own both DS and PSP I reckon anyway.

If this PSP price drop goes global I can see Nintendo responding accordingly. Nintendo have still won this handheld battle and war.

people pay $250 for an ipod, sure. but would they if the battery was crap? remember a $250 ipod is ready for your entire cd collection (aka content) to jump aboard the same evening if you have it ripped. with a psp content is extra and not terribly compelling, for most. so i'd buy a $250 ipod if i had it, but am not interested in a psp.

The price really isn't an issue. I mean, people pay $250 for an iPod, or more, and it just plays music. But for some people, that's enough. They can get all the music they want on it. For a portable gaming device, with all the stuff they originally packaged in, $250 or even $200 isn't bad, if you can play the games you want on it. Unfortunately, after a year and a half, the PSP's library is still horribly limited. Whenever you say "PSP has no gamz," you get people rattling off a list of like 10 games that are great, then trying to scorn you for disliking the thing. But after 18 months, I expect more than a dozen games, none of them "must-own" titles either, just solid stuff, if that. The entire business model for PSP was wrong from the get-go, but I'm not going to get into that. This price drop certainly won't hurt, but it's not going to help get Sony out of the hole they've dug.

"Wouldn't it be neat if Sony pretended they had competition that they were losing to, and priced their systems accordingly?"

ZING!

Seriously, PSP (and Sony) fanboys are hilarious now! After years of bashing Nintendo for 'losing', they now can't accept that their beloved company has had their entire buisness model smashed. And even more funny, Sony still doesn't realise it, so they're going to accelerate their own demise (ie they're still lying and talking arrogantly, and not dropping prices enough, even though they're losing badly in BOTH their videogame markets now).

The next two years are going to be an incredibly fun ride for Nintendo fans. It's truly the Return of the King.

Hail to the King, baby!

"Because I don't want to have to play my portable near a socket, don't want cords on me while laying in bed. Same reasons we like wireless controllers. A always-wired portable, even if it never left the house would be dumb."

I think you're basically just completing my line of reasoning here. If the battery life sucks, then it essentially turns the device into said "always-wired portable". Which it is for me for now. The last time I played my PSP in any meaningful capacity outside my house was when I had a two-hour-long Lumines session while waiting outside EB to preorder my Wii.

No, it's the price. Honestly, no handheld is worth $200.

Wouldn't it be neat if Sony pretended they had competition that they were losing to, and priced their systems accordingly?

"If "most people play at home", then why even include the battery at all?"

Because I don't want to have to play my portable near a socket, don't want cords on me while laying in bed. Same reasons we like wireless controllers. A always-wired portable, even if it never left the house would be dumb.

"Except, it's not a generalization. Most people do not play their portables in locations outside their homes."

Hmm...sounds like a generalization to me.

The only time I play by a wall outlet is in night at bed. Coincidentally, that is almost always where my PSP is. If I'm on the couch in my den, or going anywhere on the road, it's usually the DS that goes, unless I'm only counting on being out for a few hours, in which case it's a toss-up.

If "most people play at home", then why even include the battery at all? That makes no sense. Let's go out on a limb and say that most people use their cellphones at work and home, both places where they're likely to have access to AC. Does that make short battery life more acceptable?

It's a charger cord, not a power cord. And for the record, my battery life hasn't been topping five hours for quite some time, and I play everything off MS, not UMD. It gets better battery life when I just surf the web on it, since the CPU can clock down.

sirsniffy - "If there was a Wild Arms, Tales, or Suikoden game (localized for US), then maybe I would consider getting a PSP."

There's Tales Of The World out now. If you can read Japanese, there's actually four Tales games out in Japan.

azu:

You can go and tell me about the games, but it doesn't matter. Their not gonna sell. Just like I can tell you about Gamecube games or Dreamcast games.

Most of those PSP games are beaten by Hanna Montana.

Ohh, that's tempting...but there is still nothing on the system that excites me enough to buy it. If there was a Wild Arms, Tales, or Suikoden game (localized for US), then maybe I would consider getting a PSP.

Hey, look, I see a GORILLA in here.

Anyway, azu, Monster Hunter Freedom is a port of a PS2 game, Gurumin and Every Extend are ports/remakes of PC games. And Ridge Racer is a compilation of "best of" tracks, for the most part. So, you can take those off your list. And 2/3rds of those "original" titles, you couldn't make me play if you held a gun to my head.

yeah we've only got one tv in the house so if it's being used by my wife i'm SOL unless i grab my ds or boot up wow. and being able to play anywhere in the house with it is a bonus. plus the games are good. portable doesn't have to mean take it on a trip. it means take it with you, whether that is on the front porch on a cool evening, the bathroom, in bed or wherever.

I don't really see the point of playing a portable at home, specially a psp where most games are ps2 ports. You're trying to justify the psp's meager battery life by saying that everybody plays their portables at home? maybe nolifes who never go out do, but I guess normal people know that "portable" does not equal "plugged in at home"

GAF = LOL.

maybe when it hits $99 i'll pick one up. by then there should be more than 3 games i'd want to play (loco roco, katamari, valkyrie profile)

This is good news for me, now I can get a used PSP for even cheaper and satisfy my Castlevania Dracula X Chronicles and Silent Hill Origins fix. Now that I think about it... I should import the PSP Tenchu as well.

Actually, I do have Killzone & Me and My Katamari on the list, Killzone actually being the second one on the list. :p

Oh, and I did forget one upcoming game even you didn't mention: the recently announced Wipeout Pulse (I think Pulse was its name, not 100% sure about it, though). If it's as good as Pure, then it's definitely worth getting.

"terpfen, that's a pretty weak generalization."

Except, it's not a generalization. Most people do not play their portables in locations outside their homes. They just don't. For all of the millions of units the DS, DS Lite, GBA, and PSP have sold, how many do you see in public? I've seen a total of four DSes and two PSPs over the past two years.

Also, azu, good job on that list. You did leave off a few things, though: the GTA games, Viewtiful Joe, SOCOM, FFT: The Lion War, Brothers in Arms, Metal Slug Anthology, Puzzle Quest, Killzone: Liberation, Ace Combat X, SFA3 Max, Twisted Metal, Me and My Katamari, PQ, and Darkstalkers.

All right, I'm gonna do it. Terp, I need your handy list of quality PSP titles, if you don't mind rattling them off. :P

Core dropped to $170? That means the used price should be around $150! Ebay prices may be even lower! Good time to get a PSP.

terpfen, that's a pretty weak generalization. It might be fair to say that most people with PSPs play them at home hooked up to an AC adapter, but not just "most people". I bring my DS with me pretty much everywhere, and I really find it hard to respect the argument that battery life is of incidental concern for a system intended to be playable away from the home.

"And LOL at terpfen's stubborn defence of the PSP. So because people can only play their downgraded PS2 ports at home, this is somehow a good thing?"

Do you actually even bother to read what I write, or are you more interested in starting arguments?

$150
No headphones
Smallest memory card
Better battery pack

THEN I might have gotten it. I don't have $150 to blow, though, before games.

"My counterpoint was it's not like they have much of a choice."

Sure they do. Depending on how you configure and use the PSP, battery life varies wildly. And let's not forget that Sony released a higher-capacity battery.

If you play your portables mostly at home, you're a retard. Especially the PSP cause most of it's titles are on a console anyways. ROFL.

"You say that as if it proves a point."

It does; namely, that battery life on portables is overrated in importance by most people.

"I mean, portable doesn't mean much if the battery quites after just a few hours."

And yet, most people play their "portables" at home, hooked up to an AC adapter.

Also, battery life on the PSP is fine. Just don't play at max brightness, and use headphones (increase sound quality, reduce strain on the battery.) It won't last double-digit hours like the DS Lite, but it'll still last quite a while.

Finally. I might still wait for 'one' more price drop before I finally cave in and pick one up however.